all-a-muchy

ryderX

Well-Known Member
The unauthorized trails at KVSP will soon be blocked off and posted as such, per Rocky the park superintendent. To say that he's p***** off would be an understatement. God help the people responsible if he ever catches them in the act.
 

keithsly

New Member
I was rough.....

W2 Racing I was rough on you guys about the cancelling of All-A-Muchy and the cash, but it did come as a surprise to me.... The one thing that kind of was rough for me was to read about it on a message board, so please take no offense !!!

As for illegal trails, trail maintance, and the other stuff ...... Illegal trails happen.... and the park dudes get pissed. What can you do to stop it ?? I couldn't tell you !! Trail Maintance is always the way it is ...... I used to help the guys before the 24HOA, and down at Hartshorne..... But I seriously think the coin that's made off the 24HOA should be redirected in cases like they have there (I know I getting rough again but......).... I remember when Sarah put out a bunch of food after the race for everyone to eat (and she didn't ask for any cash !!) which leads me to think about GrassRoots racing and where we are with the 24HOA ??:hmmm:
 

Allamuchy Joe

Not White House Approved
JORBA.ORG
The unauthorized trails at KVSP will soon be blocked off and posted as such, per Rocky the park superintendent. To say that he's p***** off would be an understatement. God help the people responsible if he ever catches them in the act.

I don't think Rocky will ever catch the folks responsible unless he gets out of his vehicle once in a while and walks around the trail system. I don't think I have ever seen him or any other ranger on any of the trails there.

And honestly I think part of the problem state wide is the lack of rangers on the trails and lack of a presence in the parks. I have been riding in Allamuchy for 7 years, Mahlon for 13 years and Kittatinny for about 11 years. I saw a ranger in Allamuchy once (and he was lost), Kittatinny never (other than the parking lot), I've never seen one in Mahlon except at the parking lot and I have never seen a ranger in Deer Park. There is little fear of getting caught.

If the reason for this is lack of manpower, perhaps it would be in our community's interest to remind them that we can act as "eyes and ears" for them as well. Maybe JORBA should ask them if they want our input into unofficial reports (phone calls) from the trails if we see something not right so they have a better idea of the state of the park. I think this would make us a valuable resource outside of TM.

We don't want to be a pain in the ass calling them all the time if a rock is out of place, but if they want unofficial trail reports we can definitely give them what they want (dumping, illegal trails, party fire pits in the middle of the woods, quad usage, paintball, etc). Also, I would say "unofficial" because no one wants to call them and have to give all your information everytime to fill out those official detailed complaint reports. Perhaps it might be enough to let them know that a JORBA person is calling and noticed evidence of dumping at Location X or an illegal fire pit at Location Y, etc.
 
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idbrian

Crotch Rot
In regards to the illegal trails at KVSP: Are the, what look to be newer trails in the southern part, off of the red trail, near the DPW building, illegal?

I've seen a ton of new trails off of the Waterloo rail trail at Allamuchy. Some are in between the beginning of the white and the beginning of the red. The other trails (and there is a big network in there) are past the blue entrances on the same side. The trails are absolutely useless and not fun.
 

Allamuchy Joe

Not White House Approved
JORBA.ORG
In regards to the illegal trails at KVSP: Are the, what look to be newer trails in the southern part, off of the red trail, near the DPW building, illegal?

Yes, those are the ones.

I've seen a ton of new trails off of the Waterloo rail trail at Allamuchy. Some are in between the beginning of the white and the beginning of the red. The other trails (and there is a big network in there) are past the blue entrances on the same side. The trails are absolutely useless and not fun.

Yeah we noticed them, too. Some of those trails are on the old Sussex Railroad roadbed. I have a theory on those -- My theory is that some mountain biker who takes his wife or girlfriend on the rail trail and gets bored. As a result he made some more "fun trails" for himself while riding with her. What do ya think?
 

Shaggz

A strong 7
I don't think Rocky will ever catch the folks responsible unless he gets out of his vehicle once in a while and walks around the trail system. I don't think I have ever seen him or any other ranger on any of the trails there....If the reason for this is lack of manpower, perhaps it would be in our community's interest to remind them that we can act as "eyes and ears" for them as well. Maybe JORBA should ask them if they want our input into unofficial reports (phone calls) from the trails if we see something not right so they have a better idea of the state of the park. I think this would make us a valuable resource outside of TM.
This is a good point, AJ. I saw Brett right after the the rogue trails were discovered (he can clarify, but I think it was he was riding KVSP the day before, no rogue trails, and the following morning they appeared). He said he immediately went to the Park Office and reported them, as a mountain biker. As far as I know, he left his name and number, and offered to help, but was never contacted in return.

I would like to think this "self policing" helps our cause. It did with Allaire...
 

anrothar

entirely thrilled
............
We don't want to be a pain in the ass calling them all the time if a rock is out of place, but if they want unofficial trail reports we can definitely give them what they want (dumping, illegal trails, party fire pits in the middle of the woods, quad usage, paintball, etc). Also, I would say "unofficial" because no one wants to call them and have to give all your information everytime to fill out those official detailed complaint reports. Perhaps it might be enough to let them know that a JORBA person is calling and noticed evidence of dumping at Location X or an illegal fire pit at Location Y, etc.


at the adopt a trail meeting, one officer from mcpc stood up and gave a presentation on how that is exactly what they want and would appreciate. he admitted that 'some' officers are and will be lazy about it and not care, but that it should be reported. i have the park police # in my phone for all of morris and for ringwood.
 
D

DANSPANK

Guest
Perhaps post those numbers on the trail page details. They'd be useful to riders who go into the woods and unluckily get injured or something as well...
 

bonefishjake

Strong like bull, smart like tractor
Team MTBNJ Halter's
good advice - both Allamuchy Joe and I have park police for Mahlon, KVSP, and Allamuchy on our cells - just in case

i would certainly agree with this. if you have these numbers handy and can post them, please do. the fact is it is a few folks who are taking liberties in our parks that will ultimately restrict all of our access to them. if we don't take a collective stand and help out the park officials when we see something out of place, well, we're almost just as guilty. no action is just as bad as a negative one.

in terms of the all-a-mooooochy, this is clearly a hot topic. since i don't have nearly the experience with JORBA or the promoters i haven't felt compelled to pile on this mess. all i can say is this since it's 100% true of any business: be honest. if you are and you give people a real reason (which i think has happened at some point in this mess) then there is no room for critisim. i'll save my heady natural world analogies and environmental ethics lectures for another time.
 

Havoc

New Member
on behalf the Long Island racers i would like to express our sadness in the cancelling of the 50K. this is a favorite race of ours. we hope 2008 turns out better.:(
 

pinkshirtphotos

Active Member
i guess i can sort of chime in here. illegal trail building sucks, and will stop others from riding the parks but coming from the dh world i know plenty of illegal riding spots, and people who make them. but they are kept on the dl. is it wrong to have fun freeride features in ringwood? the trails they are on are not legal, and off the map. hell some of them the only way to get to is drop in from the trail. and the people riding them arent going to get in over their head because they know they are looking for. they are most likely with someone who trusts them to keep it quiet and knows how good they are at riding. if its a feature on an xc loop i say boo but if it is off the beaten path in a huge state park then i dont see any harm. i think ratting out spots where people have fun is pretty dick, even if it is illegal.
 

anrothar

entirely thrilled
i guess i can sort of chime in here. illegal trail building sucks, and will stop others from riding the parks but coming from the dh world i know plenty of illegal riding spots, and people who make them. but they are kept on the dl. is it wrong to have fun freeride features in ringwood? the trails they are on are not legal, and off the map. hell some of them the only way to get to is drop in from the trail. and the people riding them arent going to get in over their head because they know they are looking for. they are most likely with someone who trusts them to keep it quiet and knows how good they are at riding. if its a feature on an xc loop i say boo but if it is off the beaten path in a huge state park then i dont see any harm. i think ratting out spots where people have fun is pretty dick, even if it is illegal.

the problem with that is that every trail causes environmental impact, moreso than most people realize. most trail plans for a given area are designed to maximize the usable trails and minimize impact.

the other major problem, is what happens when someone happens upon the stunts and decides to try them? or someone tells someone, who tells someone, who doesn't have the skills or level head to know what they're doing and what they can handle?

or what happens when a hiker finds them and rats them out to the rangers? or a ranger him/herself finds it? if that happens, it's gonna be alot worse for ALL mtbers who use the park because it's going to be leverage for the hikers to use against us.

it's selfish, and dangerous. if what you're doing illegally could very potentially, and usually does in the end, hurt my ability to legally ride the parks, you bet your padded up ass i'm gonna rat you out.
 

anrothar

entirely thrilled
actually, if i happened upon illegal new stuff at mahlon, first thing i would do would be to post a "Please dismantle and remove" message on any relevant forums. i would also give a deadline for when i intended to call the cops, and i would stick to it.
 

pinkshirtphotos

Active Member
what happens, what happens, what happens

what happens if someone falls and becomes paralized on a marked mtb trail? will they stop all bikers from riding? wouldn't a biker get into trouble for being on illegal trail if they get hurt? if a hiker reports an illegal trail to a ranger wouldn't they get in trouble for being on said trail? so who built the first trail on the mountain? was that first trail legal?

not trying to start drama but thats just my thoughts.
 

anrothar

entirely thrilled
if someone falls and gets paralyzed on a marked trail, they'll be easy to find. if someone falls and get's paralyzed on a trail that only a handful of riders know about, it could be a very long time till they are found. finding a trail and building it are two very different things. there are any number of legitimate reasons to be off trail on foot at any given moment. like, had to pee; got lost, decided to take the straightest line in correct direction back; somehow spotted the trail from a legal trail; was scouting out a new trail under the legal auspices of the group(s) permitted to do such; was hunting and came upon it.....

i'm up for a level headed debate if you can handle it. :getsome:
 
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