Wielding Jehovah's Cyclocross Battleaxe

kush

Active Member
Kush - curious to see how you like the BASP and other Bay Area CX scene as compared to MAC/New England. I have a bunch of friends who race out there & it seems like most of the races are dustbowls. Wood be curious to hear differences/similarities.

I'm a tri geek yo. I have not done any other kind of race. I imagine its a dust bowl since it hasn't rained here since we moved in June. I will report out. I wish I woulda given away the Supermuds before I left :)
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
On Hate

I don't hate running, I just don't enjoy it. Arron makes note of the hate on running but for me, I just don't enjoy it so I don't do it. The natural reaction that most people will have is, "Well you don't run enough so you haven't given it a fair chance." If I had to guess, I've logged 1000s of miles "running", a word I put in quotes because it is hardly a run, more of a fairly fast walk.

I mention running in the context of training for cross. It comes up every year because the canned plan we all use says you should run. I do not agree with the canned plan, per se. This is not the only thing I disagree with. I also disagree with bike lifts. This is dumb. Additionally, I disagree with the way it dishes out the microbursts. But I'll get into that another day.

On running, and hate. People hate what they do not "do" or "get". As Jeremy points out, somewhat correctly I think, people do not seem to be happy when they run. So naturally, we don't get it. Also, many many people do marathons and I think a lot of us look at those people and think: well how the hell do these people do that?! I don't get it!

I think this is where some of the dislike comes from. But at the end of the day, I think a lot of people have an underlying unhappiness and look for ways to vent against things. See Manny's thread about the bikers today.

I wish I could enjoy running. But I've done it a lot. And I never got over the hump. That's just the way it is for me. I don't hate it. I just can't work it into my routine at this point. Maybe someday? Who knows.

A Short Workout?

Some say that running is great because you get a big bang for 20 minutes. This is false. You burn slightly more calories in that time. On a bike, in 20 minutes, I could easily burn 250 calories in 20 minutes. Running, probably 200 at most. If I push myself maybe more, but likely less. What you're experiencing is the fact that your joints and tendons are not used to this, so your body screams in pain for the next 2-3 days. This is not a workout. This is the equivalent of falling off your roof. You don't burn more calories falling off your roof. You hurt yourself in ways your body is not used to.

If you sprint for 20 minutes, then sure, you will burn more calories sprinting for 20 minutes than if you ride for 20 minutes. But what untrained runner can sprint for 20 minutes? At best, in 20-30 minutes, you burn maybe 75 calories more than on a bike. My best biking calorie burn rate is in the 900/hour. My running burn rate is roughly the same.

Luke made me laugh with his running comment.

Why Run for CX?

If you are going to run for cx, it is because you are practicing running up steps or up hills. The best way to practice this is to warm up on your bike, ride up to a big hill, run up it with your bike, then remount with your HR at 300 beats/minute.

You do not practice running for the barriers. This is a misconception. You practice running through barriers by running through barriers. You practice jumping rope by jumping rope. You practice tap dancing by tap dancing. Likewise, you practice a specific thing by doing that specific thing.

Do What You Like

Eric really brings up a good point, do what you like. This is something I see over and over again, people picking on something and hating on it. Sure, we all do it but it's sort of an epidemic in our society. I'm sort of bummed at the number of people who dwell on the negative, rag on the negative, thrive on the negative.

I have coined a phrase for this in the past few days, I call it "dwelling on the negative space in life." There are so many opportunities to dwell on what you don't have, and don't like. If any of us wanted to we could do that forever. Sure, we all want to be better and have more, but there has to come a balance with desire. And that balance is an exercise in not getting caught up in the negative space of your life. There are people who will make more money than you. Who will be faster on a bike that you. Who can throw a baseball faster than you or bake a better cake than you. There will always be negative space. Accepting it is part of life. Trying to erase negative space is natural. But obsessing over it is a bad hobby. And I see a lot of people making a hobby out of it.

Facebook: Creating negative space holes for all of us to jump in, daily.

So by default it only attracts a certain type of person

I would challenge anyone to define the certain type of person that cross attracts. I can guarantee you that whatever definition you come up with, I can present an example to you of someone who races who does not fit the definition. I'll save you the trouble and say that you need to include Joy (Mrs. Satanpez) in the definition.

While I see the point you're trying to make, I think the sport attracts a much wider audience than you think. It attracts more men, more women, more old people, more young people, and more middle age people than pretty much any other race venue. So even though there is no such thing as casual cross riding, it somehow has a larger rate of participation than any other discipline.

I'm not saying I have the answer to why that is, because I don't. In theory, it should almost be the hardest sport to draw numbers since very few people have a cross bike just for the sake of having a cross bike, but in a few weeks Nittany will have like 1000 people over 2 days racing and you simply do not see those sorts of numbers in any other race venue anywhere else.

The Battleaxe

Is flat. The last 5 days I've been on the bike 5 times and really have only felt ok once, on Saturday when we did some cross drills. I felt pretty good that day, but since then have felt pretty run down. There's been a low-level cold running through the house, so that may have my blade a bit dull.

On Saturday we met up with Instructor Eric and he tried to work on my barrier running & remounting technique. I think we've made some progress but we'll see if I JOEY anything at Nittany. I built my own barriers so I should be able to practice here & there on my own. I do want to get better at this.

Sunday we hit Six Mile. I felt fine but we didn't hammer it out.

Monday, felt like crap.

Today, felt a little better but mostly like crap. I did take back a local KOM on my cross bike though, so that was good. After that I went back to feeling like crap.

Tomorrow I hope I feel better.
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
run on trails you ride - and by you i don't mean you, i mean yous guys. and by guys i don't mean men......you'll see crap you never noticed. it will be interesting, it will distract you* from running, which is what piloting a bike does to the pedaling. (IMHO) not to mention the "that's a nice house" while you are running lasts a lot longer than flying by it at 20mph.....

you (by you i mean Norm) hit on the negative space before in your writings. not sure what you called it last time. will need to find it. the tone of "why go there ever?" is refreshing. does it come with experience? is it generational? who f'n knows. the school yard shit really has to stop - friendly ribbing tho, fair game.

on CX - most fun that can be had on a bike. wish there was more time to participate (my key word there) - whenever things get competitive, someone wants to win. especially if there is a specific person to beat. there you go. ain't rocket science, it is behavioural science (a ton easier)

got to ask yourself, "what would evel knievel do?"
 
Last edited:

MissJR

not in the mood for your shenanigans
Team MTBNJ Halter's
On Hate

So by default it only attracts a certain type of person

I would challenge anyone to define the certain type of person that cross attracts. I can guarantee you that whatever definition you come up with, I can present an example to you of someone who races who does not fit the definition. I'll save you the trouble and say that you need to include Joy (Mrs. Satanpez) in the definition.


You rang?
:D
 

SpartaBard

Well-Known Member
on CX - most fun that can be had on a bike. wish there was more time to participate (my key word there) -


Bingo. Definitely most fun for me.

Do you mean longer races or if the season was spread out more throughout the year besides Sept->Dec?
 

Pearl

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
on CX - most fun that can be had on a bike


Bingo. Definitely most fun for me.

come on guys, seriously? i ENJOY this type of racing as well, but most fun you can have on a bike? you guys need to get out more ;)

this is slowly trending...
6fabcbd4e236968b0704509acefb6d56.gif


EDIT: This has been posted before, but you know what looks fun? Lets pop a molly and do this:
083-eos-7d-103-7358.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKNCoaOsAT4
 
Last edited:

mattybfat

The Opinion Police
Team MTBNJ Halter's
The most fun on a bike Shirley I digress.

Apparently you guys need to get out more. Take a day and head Creek.

I am already worn out with CX and there hasn't even been a race yet now let crawl back under my rock
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
The most fun on a bike Shirley I digress.

Apparently you guys need to get out more. Take a day and head Creek.

I am already worn out with CX and there hasn't even been a race yet now let crawl back under my rock

In the most positive way possibly, I am with Matty and Pearl here. Sure CX puts together a bunch of our favorite disciplines, but more fun that dirt jumping, bombing a downhill?

From a spectators perspective, probably more fun.

On the Run
On the running thing, your assessment of calories burned is based on that you are conditioned as a cyclist. For the general person who isn't condition in either cycling or running, running is going to win for calories, maybe not much more, but almost no doubt more.
 
Last edited:

UtahJoe

Team Workhorse
Team MTBNJ Halter's
In the most positive way possibly, I am with Matty and Pearl here. Sure CX puts together a bunch of our favorite disciplines, but more fun that dirt jumping, bombing a downhill?

From a spectators perspective, probably more fun.

Bard lives adjacent to one of the most fun mtb parks in north jersey and he almost never rides there...His idea of fun is a little different than ours...and that is totally fine by me.

I do love cross racing, i dont love cross racing preparation. And like anything else...you want to be at the top level, you have to prepare. I got better at XC racing bc I spend alot of time preparing, working on fixing what i suck at and getting better at what im good at. I cant be this committed for both XC and cross and maintain my sanity...bc unlike XC, there are alot of things in cross that I need to work on that I naturally suck at. So my reaction to the august cross ramp up is usually: "fuck this" then I go hug my mountain bike and ask it to never leave me. But thats just me...I have no problems with Eric, Bard, the heckler or anyone else making cross their focus. Doowutchyalike
 

SpartaBard

Well-Known Member
Bard lives adjacent to one of the most fun mtb parks in north jersey and he almost never rides there...His idea of fun is a little different than ours...and that is totally fine by me.

I will most likely be there again real soon...
 

Kirt

JORBA: Chimney Rock, Team MTBNJ.COM
JORBA.ORG
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I think the issue people on here have with cross is not necessarily with the sport itself but where it's being discussed at nauseum, on a mtn bike forum. It would be like a Mustang guy joining a Corvette forum and saying over and over how great Mustangs look, drive, sound etc. Yes they are both cars but they are clearly different in so many ways with people taking sides. Eventually there's going to be some push back, but we all know Corvettes are simply cooler, especially to those corvette lovers. This site has evolved to more of a cycling site and not just a mtb biking site but it does still fly the MTBNJ flag, so I some anti-cross is to be expected. I think the "negative space" comment with regards to this is a stretch; this is just people protecting their interest.

I fall in the "running sucks" category. Having done it on and off over the years I just find it so boring, especially after finding cycling. I did very little last cross season. Only time was during transition intervals and once or twice doing hill repeats. I could see the benefit of doing a bit of jogging early on to get your body ready for the intervals. That said, local races have very little running so you can get away with little training. I've seen vids of other venues where there is a lot of running and I think getting your body prepared for that would improve your performance.

See you at cross practice tonight. :D
 

soulchild

Well-Known Member
I have to admit that I too had previously mirrored Bard's opinion that 'cross racing was the most fun I've had on a bicycle. If I am being honest with myself, I was wrong. After having been off my mtb for a bit and getting out the Wiss this weekend, I was reminded just how much fun the mtb is - nothing else comes close. That being said, the 'cross race 'atmosphere' as a whole is the best.

The weekend's are like mini vacations. Sure they are expensive, but when you look at the experience as more than just a 40ish minute race it becomes easier to justify. Teammates, friends, weirdos, bikes, food, beer, smiling faces, heckling, and anything else you can think of!

:getsome:
 

ChrisRU

Well-Known Member
the 'cross race 'atmosphere' as a whole is the best.
This. Definitely hard to top, unless you're racing the Tour or some other major event where the crowds come out.

The preparation part does suck (not the training, the lugging crap back and forth to races). And there is all sorts of absurdity surrounding cross. Having just moved, shuffling around my two cross bikes and two extra wheelsets gave me a few moments of staring and thinking "this is just silly". Travel times, hotels, etc..... all stupid. But when its fun its fun. You hate hosing your bike off and trashing your car/home with muddy crap but next weekend you just go back and do it again.

For me, there is nothing really better than a good fun bike ride with a couple of friends where the day just goes right- solid loop, solid company, good weather etc. A few days like this a year is what keeps me riding.
 

BiknBen

Well-Known Member
Oh, why do I read this? :rolleyes:

Personally, I am part of the no running club. I am also part of the I don't train for cross club. You will see me enter a cross race from time to time. Less and less these days. I have my own expectations and will have fun.

If you want to improve, you have to recognize weaknesses and train to improve them. As a coach, that is fundamental to what I do. Establish goals, recognize what is limiting you from reaching those goals, and plan to overcome.

"Do what you like." is great but it often becomes, train what you are good at because that is more fun than doing something you suck at. What you are good at will see diminishing gains while the things you suck at will continue to suck. Maybe even more as they are continued to be ignored. Instead, train the weakness and become a more complete competitor.

If not interested in becoming a "competitor", do what you want. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Don't complain when you see less improvement than others. Don't dwell on the negative later.

With regards to running, I found trail running to be far more enjoyable than on the road or sidewalk. Forced to pay attention to each step while enjoying a more natural environment made a difference to me. I did not take up trail running but I didn't hate running as much.

Why run for cross? We don't do hours of running or marathons. Jog enough to create an adaptation so you can endure the early discomfort. Then introduce sprints which will benefit you in cross. We don't spend much time running in cross but it is often where people get jammed up such as barriers, sand, and run-ups. A good runner can pass in bunches at that time.
 

rick81721

Lothar
On the Run
On the running thing, your assessment of calories burned is based on that you are conditioned as a cyclist. For the general person who isn't condition in either cycling or running, running is going to win for calories, maybe not much more, but almost no doubt more.

I looked back and compared some 1 hr trail runs vs 1 hr high-intensity bike rides. I burn more calories and have a higher average heart rate running than cycling. And from a feel perspective, one of the bigger differences I find in running vs riding is that there is no coasting in running - unless you stop for a breather (and I don't), you never get a break.
 

mandi

Well-Known Member
"Do what you like." is great but it often becomes, train what you are good at because that is more fun than doing something you suck at. What you are good at will see diminishing gains while the things you suck at will continue to suck.

I really enjoyed every word you posted here. Though I really hope to have my first non-sucking year of CX. Totally made me rLOL
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Ok well it looks like you guys are just going to continue to focus on what you want to overreact to. So it goes.

Negative Space

This wasn't so much a comment on this thread, though it does apply here. Go look at the news, Facebook, TV, and to some extent this message board. Negative always reigns over positive. Always. This is not about protecting the sport people love. If that were the case, we wouldn't collectively rag on:

* anyone who ever tries to sell a bike. We all laugh "ha ha ha" at FFT when he ridicules people for selling a mountain bike but the fact of the matter is, he's being a dick and a lot of people just enjoy people being dicks to each other.

* anyone who buys a Walmart bike. If we really encouraged people to enjoy the sport we love, we wouldn't instantly turn them into a pariah for riding a bike that's not like ours.

* anyone who runs a wheel size different than ours

* anyone who choose SS/gears when we choose gears/SS

* anyone who goes to a shop we don't go to

* anyone who makes any decision we pretty much don't agree with.

This is more than protecting the sport we love. Anytime anyone does or says something that runs counter to what someone else did or said, they get partially beat up for it. This is why you never see anyone post something like, "Hey you know what? I really love Lewis Morris." The reason is simple. They would get crucified.

Am I wasting my time with this reply? Yes, no doubt. I made it clear that a) I enjoy cross and b) I get annoyed at the people who CROSS IS BOSS everything for 9 months too. So can we leave it at that? Can the absolutists on both sides of the fence admit that these things are opinions, not facts?

Pearl is right in a sense about the Fonz. But man it just irritates me that people speak with such conviction that their opinion is right, their opinion is fact. It's not. I like stinky tofu. I just do. It's this weird Asian dish that a lot of people don't like. It smells like crap. It looks like crap. But I really like the taste. I'm fully aware that filet mignon and lobster are awesome. But I really like stinky tofu too. Can't you just let me enjoy my stink tofu?

Let's put this another way. A good new American meal or a solid French meal is so way beyond better than a burrito. But every time any one of you guys goes and talks about how awesome Mexican food is, I don't chime in and say what unrefined slobs you are. I let you enjoy your burrito. Because you know what? I prefer new American food & French food more, but now and again I like a big fat greasy & cheesy burrito too. And what else: I'm cool with whatever you decide for yourself.

I know probably nobody is going to reply to this rant. Eat a peach.

Fun on a Bike

I think cross racing is the most fun form of racing. I think mountain biking is the most fun form of riding. I think road biking is the most accessible and it is the most exhilarating form of racing. I imagine downhilling is probably a hell of a lot of fun to both race and ride, but also the least accessible and somewhat expensive. I think BMX jumping is probably also fun, but again very inaccessible given the lack of places to ride a BMX bike. I think TTs are boring in both practice & racing.

As others have said, the event as a whole is really a lot of fun. SSaP would be 50% less awesome if everyone raced and went home. Really it would just be another XC race. Cross would suck if we all just showed up, raced, then went home. The whole point of this message board is to bring people together who have the same interests. Cross races bring people together, and they add social interaction with your friends, racing, and beer/food all in 1 place. This is why people really enjoy the cross season.

Those who are focusing on the negative here pretty much ignore the social aspect and pretend that cross is only the racing, the prep, and the cleanup. That's like saying that eating a good meal with your friends is actually only about the prep, the cleanup, and taking a crap 2 days later.

I don't like the whole prep either, especially since we also have the 2 bike racks, team tent, tools, and bike stand to throw in as well. We've considered buying a trailer but I'm not sure that would make things any better at the end of the day. But on another level it's part of our bike religion. Part of the distraction from the reality I pointed out a few weeks ago, that we do things like this because if we don't, then life is just an endless repetition of eat, sleep, shit on and on until you die.

And thus, we glue tubulars.

On the Run

Kevin would bring up a point if this were a chess forum. But given that many of us are trained cyclists at some level, it kind of misses the point. The whole reason biking is still a better use of 20-30 minutes is because we're trained cyclists. At least to some extent.

My comment was not directed at the tubby guy who lives next door and rides his motorcycle every few days. It is aimed at Pearl. I kept imagining him rolling off a roof when I was writing that yesterday.

I'm sure Pat is right. If I ran "off the beaten path" it would be more fun but then it would be less simple.

And yes on what Mandi said, you need to buy new shoes at an inordinately rapid pace if you want to maximize the running experience. Still less expensive than "OMFG I really just dropped $400 on my tubulars for the year and they're not even glued on" but still not cheap either. Again, things always fall into the "if something is worth doing it's worth overdoing" category.

Otto's Farm

I am a little under the weather today, but I'll see you there later. Unless I don't.
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
glomming some Qs and observations .

bombing a downhill is fun! especially rewarding after pedaling up it. for some reason, lift serviced adrenaline rush puts it in a different category.

DJ looks fun, 180+lbs of me flying through the air tho - the power-to-weight ratio isn't there to land that stuff (or launch it) - the softer snowboard & wakeboard landings are preferable. Dancing with the bike (trials, street style) would be fun too, but that isn't racing, and are questionable sport.

since the race team comes at cx from preparing to win or at least challenge, it is probably a different monster. i'm hoping to get a little mid-pack/race-in-the-race action, and let either bike handling, or general fitness help me actually finish ahead of someone else.

and yeah, the whole package, not just riding the bike hard. hecklers, old and new friends, kids laughing(at me), mud, missing turns, costumes, tripping over barriers, comedic race announcers, extra wheels, extra bikes!

speaking of riding the bike - i like how it features multiple skills. without the mtb skills, the bike is going to be toast - flats or a taco'd tire. then there is straight line speed into the craziest turns!

maybe it is just the uniqueness for me (having participated a couple times, and attended a couple times) that makes it so much fun. but: just seems to be a riot of a day -

as far as time - suppose i could enter two races since i'm old and slow, so there is plenty of riding to be had - the time crunch is the family commitments on the weekends, as i'm pretty much on my own during the week - so a couple events per quarter are all that i can commit to. Probably hit the skylands triathlon in sept, philly marathon in november, horseshoe was dec plan (or whenever it is)...oct could work (marty's cx?) -

maybe my kid will start racing soon - that will help.

Back to the Host of this thread...
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
previous post was authored concurrently with Norms reply.

like his summation of fun on a bike - which needs its own word.
 
Top Bottom