Wielding Jehovah's Cyclocross Battleaxe
- Thread starter Norm
- Start date
ChrisG
Unapologetic Lifer for Rock and Roll
How about Running Scared? Even more dated, but I'll still watch it when it's on.
rick81721
Lothar
Gotta run once a week to prevent the next day pain - even a short few miles is good enough. And hit the trails - way better than road running.
yeah, i'll watch this as well. not a great movie but rather a throw back to the 80's and I-remember-watching-this-when type movie.
rick81721
Lothar
I have a great time running in sourland mountain preserve - well except for the initial big climb, that pretty much blows. But after that - nice
.
this. this is one of the two times that i run. packing shoes = free. renting road bike = $90 + tax per day and the necessity of packing all my biking stuff which would lead to a bigger bag to travel with.
yep. i usually run for about 30 minutes unless i'm feeling exceptionally awesome or i'm in a place that just begs to be seen. i run further in Cali than i do here...and i think my furthest run ever was along the Charles River in Boston- i did like 12 miles.
it takes a decent amount of time to get to a happy place with running, especially if you don't do it at least 1x week. but you're right, for the most part i'm not "happy" when i'm running. i'm jammed up for time and just need to get something done.
Ok, so back to the point about cross. The Heckler has a lot of good points but you guys are more or less over that whole discussion because too much time has passed. Jeff tries to make a point, specifically this:
First of all, it's the back of the classes that take the beer & bacon hand-ups. You know what mountain bike racing would be with beer & bacon hand-ups? MORE FUN! And all the people taking the hand-ups would be the middle/lower pack of the classes. The top would be the same guys, doing the same thing. As for mud/sand & turns, that's an odd point. We ride mountain bikes over rocks & logs & roots as a total gratuitous exercise. People who build trails intentionally do that, put the trails over rocks and logs and such. And mud, you're going to say that no MTB races are in mud? You might have a point with sand. But the same would apply to mud in mountain biking.
I think also what's more is that there are world level cross racers competing in the Tour. Like it or hate it, it's a legit sport with world class athletes in it. Just because you think it makes slightly more sense than playing darts doesn't make it so.
On that note, think long & hard about the replay rules in baseball. Then compare them with the handful of rules in cross. Baseball in itself wins some sort of absurdity award when you think about the game as a whole.
Ok, I do think Utah touches on valid point here:
This isn't unfair. But anything worth doing is worth overdoing, right? As people ride bikes more and get in shape more, they realize the strongest & most competitive classes are in cross races. So if you want to compete with the most strong people, you race cross. Look at the MAC class I race in. On any day there are some guys who might come in 10th or might come in 40th. That's hard to find anywhere else.
So to the people who embrace that, it's worth it to do all of those things. I'm not really 1 of those guys. I don't jog, I refuse to shoulder the bike because I don't think it's really much faster in the long run. I get the money & tubular point that Utah makes. Trust me, nobody can relate more than me after last year. But then, I remember 1 race at KVSP a few years back where I sliced up an Ignitor on the first lap. A brand new one, so $60 or whatever pissed away right there.
If cost is an issue I think we may all be in the wrong sport. We need to take up chess.
Pit Bikes
Utah more or less nails this one with his description I think. I think the best road to a pit bike is the one where you buy a crappy cross bike, realize you love the sport, buy a real one, and have a de facto pit bike from there. My pit bike has saved my bacon numerous times. In fact, I have done Nittany 5 times ever and have had 4 mechanicals there. 3 of them I used the pit bike to keep racing. Once I did not have a pit bike. I have used it other times but Nittany seems to somehow be the place I exercise it the most.
Jeremy does bring up a point, though I did once run like 8 minutes to the pit to get my bike. That was last year, and my goal was to catch at least 1 guy. I did, eventually catch a few. But it may have been better to call it a day and come back on Sunday. Oh yeah, that was Nittany.
I was also once in 2nd in a NJ 40+ race when I blew my chain. It took every ounce of effort to not throw the bike as far as I could. In the end I calmly collected myself and walked back to the car, directly. At some point I heard Joe Sailing wondering on the mic where I had gone.
I do not think you need to practice shouldering, or running. I do not think you need to bring a trainer. I do not think you need a pit bike, or an extra set of wheels. The first full year I raced cross, I had a heavy ass Fuji bike with a set of tubulars. I paid less than $1000 for the whole setup. I went to cross practice at CR most Wednesdays and I raced hard on the weekends. I was in the NJ series that year and ended up 3rd overall in the B class. After that, I got better bikes, which are more fragile, and I break them all the time now. My point is, you don't need a lot of money to do this. And you don't have to buy into the religion to do this, and do it well. I didn't have any of those bells & whistles. I had a big engine and could handle a bike.
That's all you really, really need.
Finally
Think about what you probably like riding the most, in order, just for fun:
1. The trails
2. The road
3. In a grass field
This sort of suggests, at least to me, that the discipline that it makes the MOST sense to race is #3. Take the thing that's the least fun and add a shit-ton of awesome to it. I do actually enjoy racing mountain bikes too, but it makes the least sense to take the thing you enjoy most and drape a race over it. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. But if we're going to get logical let's at least put everything under the microscope.
Anyway, I know that I just wasted a bunch of time here because the people who like cross will still like it and agree with me and the people who don't like it will ignore everything I said and hyper-focus on 1 or 2 things that don't seem to make sense. Maybe tomorrow we can discuss the Palestinian situation?
First of all, it's the back of the classes that take the beer & bacon hand-ups. You know what mountain bike racing would be with beer & bacon hand-ups? MORE FUN! And all the people taking the hand-ups would be the middle/lower pack of the classes. The top would be the same guys, doing the same thing. As for mud/sand & turns, that's an odd point. We ride mountain bikes over rocks & logs & roots as a total gratuitous exercise. People who build trails intentionally do that, put the trails over rocks and logs and such. And mud, you're going to say that no MTB races are in mud? You might have a point with sand. But the same would apply to mud in mountain biking.
I think also what's more is that there are world level cross racers competing in the Tour. Like it or hate it, it's a legit sport with world class athletes in it. Just because you think it makes slightly more sense than playing darts doesn't make it so.
On that note, think long & hard about the replay rules in baseball. Then compare them with the handful of rules in cross. Baseball in itself wins some sort of absurdity award when you think about the game as a whole.
Ok, I do think Utah touches on valid point here:
This isn't unfair. But anything worth doing is worth overdoing, right? As people ride bikes more and get in shape more, they realize the strongest & most competitive classes are in cross races. So if you want to compete with the most strong people, you race cross. Look at the MAC class I race in. On any day there are some guys who might come in 10th or might come in 40th. That's hard to find anywhere else.
So to the people who embrace that, it's worth it to do all of those things. I'm not really 1 of those guys. I don't jog, I refuse to shoulder the bike because I don't think it's really much faster in the long run. I get the money & tubular point that Utah makes. Trust me, nobody can relate more than me after last year. But then, I remember 1 race at KVSP a few years back where I sliced up an Ignitor on the first lap. A brand new one, so $60 or whatever pissed away right there.
If cost is an issue I think we may all be in the wrong sport. We need to take up chess.
Pit Bikes
Utah more or less nails this one with his description I think. I think the best road to a pit bike is the one where you buy a crappy cross bike, realize you love the sport, buy a real one, and have a de facto pit bike from there. My pit bike has saved my bacon numerous times. In fact, I have done Nittany 5 times ever and have had 4 mechanicals there. 3 of them I used the pit bike to keep racing. Once I did not have a pit bike. I have used it other times but Nittany seems to somehow be the place I exercise it the most.
Jeremy does bring up a point, though I did once run like 8 minutes to the pit to get my bike. That was last year, and my goal was to catch at least 1 guy. I did, eventually catch a few. But it may have been better to call it a day and come back on Sunday. Oh yeah, that was Nittany.
I was also once in 2nd in a NJ 40+ race when I blew my chain. It took every ounce of effort to not throw the bike as far as I could. In the end I calmly collected myself and walked back to the car, directly. At some point I heard Joe Sailing wondering on the mic where I had gone.
I do not think you need to practice shouldering, or running. I do not think you need to bring a trainer. I do not think you need a pit bike, or an extra set of wheels. The first full year I raced cross, I had a heavy ass Fuji bike with a set of tubulars. I paid less than $1000 for the whole setup. I went to cross practice at CR most Wednesdays and I raced hard on the weekends. I was in the NJ series that year and ended up 3rd overall in the B class. After that, I got better bikes, which are more fragile, and I break them all the time now. My point is, you don't need a lot of money to do this. And you don't have to buy into the religion to do this, and do it well. I didn't have any of those bells & whistles. I had a big engine and could handle a bike.
That's all you really, really need.
Finally
Think about what you probably like riding the most, in order, just for fun:
1. The trails
2. The road
3. In a grass field
This sort of suggests, at least to me, that the discipline that it makes the MOST sense to race is #3. Take the thing that's the least fun and add a shit-ton of awesome to it. I do actually enjoy racing mountain bikes too, but it makes the least sense to take the thing you enjoy most and drape a race over it. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. But if we're going to get logical let's at least put everything under the microscope.
Anyway, I know that I just wasted a bunch of time here because the people who like cross will still like it and agree with me and the people who don't like it will ignore everything I said and hyper-focus on 1 or 2 things that don't seem to make sense. Maybe tomorrow we can discuss the Palestinian situation?
GratefulRider
Active Member
As usual, You bring up a handful of valid points. I guess I just have to admit that I'm a little jaded towards CX. It's an absolute blast to race. I totally dread it but when things go well* nothing is more exhiliarating. The race/prep ratio sucks IMO and I hate building a week around a 45 minute race, but that's what is required to be competitive.
My comment re: serious CX racers quitting is really just me being sour that an entire field of racers (that will soon be crushing me) have been working on their 3-5-10 minute efforts while Im still concerning myself with cardiac drift after 3-5-8hrs in the saddle. I respect the dedication to equipment and training that is required to do well and in a way I'm grateful (see what I did there?) that you're doing it because it forces me to try keep up which will inevitably make me faster. So thanks.
It'll never happen, but if say the NUE or MASS endurance series hosted CX races for their participants, I think it would be a lot more fun for us. I'd still get to ride 15 hrs a week, I'd relax my diet a it, and I'd get an hour or two of intensity a week. Which is I believe is how CX got started in the first place.
*finish without a mechanical.
My comment re: serious CX racers quitting is really just me being sour that an entire field of racers (that will soon be crushing me) have been working on their 3-5-10 minute efforts while Im still concerning myself with cardiac drift after 3-5-8hrs in the saddle. I respect the dedication to equipment and training that is required to do well and in a way I'm grateful (see what I did there?) that you're doing it because it forces me to try keep up which will inevitably make me faster. So thanks.
It'll never happen, but if say the NUE or MASS endurance series hosted CX races for their participants, I think it would be a lot more fun for us. I'd still get to ride 15 hrs a week, I'd relax my diet a it, and I'd get an hour or two of intensity a week. Which is I believe is how CX got started in the first place.
*finish without a mechanical.
Very good points re: CX. I recognize a few of the discussions we had about it in there.
I don't really have any need or desire to defend CX. It's fun, it suits me well and I don't suck at it as much as I suck at crits and long distance MTB events. I can train and be competitive riding ~5 hours a week. Sure, it's not for everybody, but I'll never understand why people care enough about what other people are doing to rant about it. Maybe that's the key to life: Do what you like to do. Don't do what you don't like to do. Don't worry about what anybody else is does. Kumbaya.
What you describe here sounds a little bit like Short Track XC racing, non? Outside of MTB Nationals, I don't get the feeling that STCX is taken seriously in the USA. I wonder why not?
I still think a mid-summer weeknight Short Track race series would be totally rad.
I don't really have any need or desire to defend CX. It's fun, it suits me well and I don't suck at it as much as I suck at crits and long distance MTB events. I can train and be competitive riding ~5 hours a week. Sure, it's not for everybody, but I'll never understand why people care enough about what other people are doing to rant about it. Maybe that's the key to life: Do what you like to do. Don't do what you don't like to do. Don't worry about what anybody else is does. Kumbaya.
What you describe here sounds a little bit like Short Track XC racing, non? Outside of MTB Nationals, I don't get the feeling that STCX is taken seriously in the USA. I wonder why not?
I still think a mid-summer weeknight Short Track race series would be totally rad.
kush
Active Member
A little experiment for this year's cross season here in sunny california. I am not going to train for it, no CP nothing.
My bike training this year AB (after battenkill) has been weekly 6 hour rides in Z1-Z2 and some short tempo work. So I now have a diametrically opposed power curve.
On running, don't run. I've been running 30 miles per week for last 18 weeks, and I'm just now becoming comfortable with it. The problem that won't go away is that it's boring.
My bike training this year AB (after battenkill) has been weekly 6 hour rides in Z1-Z2 and some short tempo work. So I now have a diametrically opposed power curve.
On running, don't run. I've been running 30 miles per week for last 18 weeks, and I'm just now becoming comfortable with it. The problem that won't go away is that it's boring.
Cross is the only discipline that's all about the race. Nobody goes out for a ride on a cross track just for fun. If you're on your cross bike on a cross course, you're either racing or practicing racing techniques.
So by default it only attracts a certain type of person.
So by default it only attracts a certain type of person.
BMX racing doe
There is zero reason for a bmx track other than racing and practicing racing.
Ahh. Yea I suppose. A bmx track usually has jumps though which are just fun. More fun than jumping over barriers.
This is true.