A Potted Plant
Honorary Sod
The world is changing they aren't going to stop cheating, they need to either open the gates to anything or ban people for life if they're serious
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The world is changing they aren't going to stop cheating, they need to either open the gates to anything or ban people for life if they're serious
1speed
Incredibly profound yet fantastically flawed
I don't think what was done here rises to the level where suspensions and firings should be happening. That's just PC bullshit. Look at that video of Farquhar. He figured out what was going on and made a change with his catcher. And what happened? He puts Gattis down. End of story. What they were doing here is cheating, sure, but it's cheating that's been happening since baseball started. The only two differences are (1) it's happening at an organizational level instead of an individual level and (2) it's using technology. Reason (1) is kind of hand-waving - if signs are being stolen (again, like they have always been doing in baseball) does it really matter who is doing it? I mean, if it's that big of an issue, then you have to go after ALL the sign stealers in history and retroactively penalize them. That's never going to happen. And reason (2) sounds like baseball trying to put the genie back in the bottle. I mean, it's well-established across the league now that you need to use advanced metrics and technology just to be competitive. So what really happened here? They re-purposed something that's an accepted part of the game (playback video and surveillance to help improve player performance) for an illicit purpose. How is that different than taking something else that's an accepted part of the game (base-runners) and using them to steal signs (for which, to beat a dead horse, no one has ever been suspended ever.) I know that baseball has arbitrarily decided this is illegal compared to other means of stealing signs, but I just don't see how that makes sense. Either it's all illegal, or none of it is. You can't say "Hey, to be competitive, you have to be technologically savvy" in one breath and then in the other say, "But tech gives an unfair advantage and so we're going to make any use of it to do things that are already being done without it illegal." It's logically inconsistent to do that. This is no worse than other sign-stealing. And what it really does is not a bad thing - it forces a pitcher/catcher combination to figure out a way to beat it, as Farquhar did in that clip.
And by the way, that's not a Met fan trying to justify our new manager's past. I actually have no love for Beltran and probably never will because of the way he went down looking in '06 (ruined my birthday, it did ...) In fact, my only thought in all this w.r.t. Beltran is that possibly getting fired before ever managing a single game might just be the most Metsian thing he'll ever do.
And by the way, that's not a Met fan trying to justify our new manager's past. I actually have no love for Beltran and probably never will because of the way he went down looking in '06 (ruined my birthday, it did ...) In fact, my only thought in all this w.r.t. Beltran is that possibly getting fired before ever managing a single game might just be the most Metsian thing he'll ever do.
the problem is the home team's advantage in setting up cameras, and proximity of equipment. the game feed is on a delay, so it has to be a dedicated camera.
@mattybfat - the analytics people are not allowed to provide moves in-game. The manager has the sole responsibility once the game starts.
They can have their "books", but can not receive real-time info. Coaches do send the pitches in depending on the situation.
Beltran should step down voluntarily. He will have to play against pitchers that he schemed against.
We don't need our hitters taking one in the ear for payback - which is what the pitchers should have done when they found out the astros were cheating.
Would have ended quickly.
the world isnt changing...humans have cheated forever and will continue to do so....open the flood gates? as in what? MLB wants a game that people want to A. Play B. pay money to watch....if the game is tainted, less people will watch and therefore the sport generates less money. Baseball viewership has basically collapsed in the years since steroids....People viewing the sport as possibly tainted, does not help. As pat mentioned...Analytics are one thing...they are a guide to set up a game plan...this is on a whole different level.
A Potted Plant
Honorary Sod
The world is changing in terms of tech, the game has been tainted my whole life people came out for bonds they'll keep coming cheaters or not, if anything cheaters have been good for the league
Mr. E Man
Well-Known Member
maybe we can throw out all of The Yankees World Series wins ???
Juggernaut
Master of the Metaphor
No one should be fired and nothing should be vacated. Punishment should be.... any team caught doing this must take the bullet for the rest of the league and participate in ALL the stupid international and promotional bullshit for 5 years. If it’s only the Astro’s, split squad games.
Those Cora comments could also be taken as to mean that Beltran told them to be a little more careful with their signs.
If the Yankees were stealing signs, someone’s gonna talk and it’ll come out. People can’t keep that kind of thing a secret.
Juggernaut
Master of the Metaphor
Juggernaut
Master of the Metaphor
Could’a used the signs...........
Cant wait for some ex bosox players to start dumping. This is riod controversy all over again. Remember conseco came out with a book and then the slow drip pourith overith.
Mr. E Man
Well-Known Member
I read somewhere that Beltrans niece is tweeting- leaking this information.
Well she was the first to break the hiring news and also the first of him stepping down. Hopefully she breaks the news of BVW firing soon.
njmark
Professional Cyclist
Heard on the Kay Show that Trout is alleged to be using HGH through a loop hole, it was sent out from Scott Brosius son. Is it true, I don't know. He plays for a team I don't care about so I find it hard to generate any care about it. Apparently Glayber Torres name came up as well.
Juggernaut
Master of the Metaphor
It’s kinda funny really; I don’t think anyone from my generation actually believed baseball’s ever been clean.
Speed (Amphetamines) had been in the game since at least the turn of the century, the last one “smart ass”. Roids are not new but got a boost from the advances that came out of the 1940’s and again out of the eastern block in the 60-70’s. We’ve always had spit balls, corked bats, Vaseline, pine tar and of course let’s not forget scuffling in the 80’s (another Astro contribution). Hell, I remember stories about teams using binoculars from inside the scoreboard (those used to be manual) and relayed with mirrors.
This sanctimonious revisionist history by the “talking heads”, the media... not the band.... is sickening.
They’ve got their pound of flesh, enough already.
Since my hockey and basketball teams aren’t going to sniff the playoffs any time in the foreseeable future, I’d kinda like to get back to looking forward to pitchers and catchers.
Speed (Amphetamines) had been in the game since at least the turn of the century, the last one “smart ass”. Roids are not new but got a boost from the advances that came out of the 1940’s and again out of the eastern block in the 60-70’s. We’ve always had spit balls, corked bats, Vaseline, pine tar and of course let’s not forget scuffling in the 80’s (another Astro contribution). Hell, I remember stories about teams using binoculars from inside the scoreboard (those used to be manual) and relayed with mirrors.
This sanctimonious revisionist history by the “talking heads”, the media... not the band.... is sickening.
They’ve got their pound of flesh, enough already.
Since my hockey and basketball teams aren’t going to sniff the playoffs any time in the foreseeable future, I’d kinda like to get back to looking forward to pitchers and catchers.
1speed
Incredibly profound yet fantastically flawed
October 19, 2006 ... I remember this like it was yesterday. It was my birthday and I had the day off from work. I woke up early, stopped by this local farm market and picked up some homemade muffins for breakfast. Then I drove out to Blue Marsh Lake for a great ride under sunny skies and warm temps (for October.) Had a great lunch and my wife (fiance at the time) bought me a case of a Riverhorse Dubbel (I don't think they make this one anymore - I think it was replaced by Belgian Freeze.) Then I sat down to watch the Mets take the NLCS. Endy made The Catch. It felt like fate. They were trailing in the ninth, but had the bases jammed and up comes Beltran.
Then ... this.
I was crushed. My brother (another long-suffering Met fan) even called to see if I was alright. I wasn't. In well over 40 years of Met fandom, I honestly think this might be my lowest moment. For all you other Met fans here - think about that. That's actually quite astonishing considering this is a team that has practically screamed "F-you" at their fans a thousand times over that period.
So anyway, thanks @mattybfat for sharing ...