It's 2025 Is an Emtb in your near future?

Is an Emtb in your near future?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 7.8%

  • No

    Votes: 52 40.6%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 21 16.4%

  • Never

    Votes: 11 8.6%

  • Already own one

    Votes: 34 26.6%
  • Total voters
    128
The mechanics of the bike are not designed for that currently.

You basically have an assist-motor. It either gives something, or nothing. That's the state today. If it gives nothing, it simply acts as if the battery is dead. It is a primitive system here. You push the pedal, motor goes on, +1 or +2 or +3 depending on what level you have it on.

You'd need a really complex system to attain the erg mode you're aiming for. With Zwift, erg mode means that you WILL produce 200 watts on your own, like it or not. With the RES (Recovery Erg System) the mode would be different. You would want to maintain a power of 200w or less. So 20w is ok, as is 50, 100, all the way to 200. So like Coyote says, you now need to add a clutch and feedback system that adjusts based on how much power you're putting out.

Ok so get yourself in a situation where you have it set to 150w and you're riding at RV. 150w and that 50# bike is going to go uphill at like...maybe 1? You'll be so frustrated you'll throw the bike. So ok, drawing board again. I think you then need to go back to the bike putting out X watts, period. So your ride will be 200w plus whatever you put out. Otherwise you'll stall and fall over. So now you're 200w base plus whatever you do. The motor needs to measure total wattage plus motor wattage to get rider wattage. And it needs to then adjust to be able ensure you don't go over your target wattage while making sure the bike maintains some level of total output to ensure it moves forward and/or up. But then, again, we;re back at going DH at RV with the motor still pushing the bike forward. Hold on to your hats!

Or, you put the bike in turbo mode and just watch your HR and make sure you're keeping it in target.

I threw a lot of shit on the proverbial wall there, but I think the takeaway is that it's far more complex than the motors that exist today and the target market is extraordinarily small.
 
jShort said:
I could just Google this, but, I figured I would ask here. Do E bikes have any kind of ERG mode? Like a trainer has. It would limit you at whatever watts you want to pedal at. If you go over say, 200 watts, the cranks would just spin with no resistance

This would be good for recovery rides, or any intervals really.

You could take an E bike and make it a training tool which is kind of interesting.
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There is an aftermarket app called Blevo which was designed to work on Specialized Levos. It gives that function as well as Smart HR which I use. I can set a HR value and the assist will raise and lower to try and keep my HR below that value.

Cranks won't spin with no resistance, the motor will just try to give as much boost as possible to keep you at the 200 watts.
 
Norm said:
The mechanics of the bike are not designed for that currently.

You basically have an assist-motor. It either gives something, or nothing. That's the state today. If it gives nothing, it simply acts as if the battery is dead. It is a primitive system here. You push the pedal, motor goes on, +1 or +2 or +3 depending on what level you have it on.

You'd need a really complex system to attain the erg mode you're aiming for. With Zwift, erg mode means that you WILL produce 200 watts on your own, like it or not. With the RES (Recovery Erg System) the mode would be different. You would want to maintain a power of 200w or less. So 20w is ok, as is 50, 100, all the way to 200. So like Coyote says, you now need to add a clutch and feedback system that adjusts based on how much power you're putting out.

Ok so get yourself in a situation where you have it set to 150w and you're riding at RV. 150w and that 50# bike is going to go uphill at like...maybe 1? You'll be so frustrated you'll throw the bike. So ok, drawing board again. I think you then need to go back to the bike putting out X watts, period. So your ride will be 200w plus whatever you put out. Otherwise you'll stall and fall over. So now you're 200w base plus whatever you do. The motor needs to measure total wattage plus motor wattage to get rider wattage. And it needs to then adjust to be able ensure you don't go over your target wattage while making sure the bike maintains some level of total output to ensure it moves forward and/or up. But then, again, we;re back at going DH at RV with the motor still pushing the bike forward. Hold on to your hats!

Or, you put the bike in turbo mode and just watch your HR and make sure you're keeping it in target.

I threw a lot of shit on the proverbial wall there, but I think the takeaway is that it's far more complex than the motors that exist today and the target market is extraordinarily small.
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I was really just wondering if there feature existed
 
jShort said:
I was really just wondering if there feature existed
Click to expand...

Couldn't sleep last night because of this (and maybe a little discomfort in the nether region)

I think it needs 3 settings -

Watts you'd like to maintain
Minimum speed
Max speed

so here is the crazy part - as Norm mentioned, you are going uphill at RV, and you really need 400W to maintain minimum speed - the motor gives you what you need, only allows you to put in 200W. fall below 200 and it yells at you, and you fall over.

You are screaming through the Twisties at 6MR at 200W, but you have max speed set (and maybe this is set with a thumb toggle?) at max speed the bike brakes and the cranks slip (might be a downshift instead) cadence goes up, effort goes down, speed doesn't get out-of-hand.
Going downhill, the cranks provide resistance to 200W, and the bike brakes for max speed

Good thought experiment - probably not practical, although setting an eBike with this ability in a dumb trainer.......wait, no.

Thanks for playing along.
 
Working for the Monmouth County Park System, we allow Class 1 & Class 2 E-bikes on trails. The problem is identifying Class 3 and up types of bikes.

We use N.J.S.A 39:4-14.16 as part of our enforcement policy on E-Bikes. One of the things it states is the following;

On and after January 1, 2019, manufacturers and distributors of low-speed electric bicycles shall apply a label that is permanently affixed, in a prominent location, to each low-speed electric bicycle. The label shall contain the classification number, top assisted speed, and motor wattage of the low-speed electric bicycle, and shall be printed in Arial font in at least 9-point type.

Do E-bikes have this label on them? I do not own an E-bike and never noticed such a label.
 
one piece crank said:
How durable are eBike frames, particularly the BB? Can you use the skid plate to log-n-slide, or it that going to break it?
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Each frame is different. On a Specialized Levo you're hitting a plastic piece attached to the battery, not the frame itself. It is a replaceable part, but about $65 IIRC.
 
pooriggy said:
Working for the Monmouth County Park System, we allow Class 1 & Class 2 E-bikes on trails. The problem is identifying Class 3 and up types of bikes.

We use N.J.S.A 39:4-14.16 as part of our enforcement policy on E-Bikes. One of the things it states is the following;

On and after January 1, 2019, manufacturers and distributors of low-speed electric bicycles shall apply a label that is permanently affixed, in a prominent location, to each low-speed electric bicycle. The label shall contain the classification number, top assisted speed, and motor wattage of the low-speed electric bicycle, and shall be printed in Arial font in at least 9-point type.

Do E-bikes have this label on them? I do not own an E-bike and never noticed such a label.
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What stops putting that label on a Class 3 bike?

How often are you currently enforcing which class bike people are riding?
 
Santapez said:
What stops putting that label on a Class 3 bike?

How often are you currently enforcing which class bike people are riding?
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The problem we face is knowing what is a Class 1 & 2 Ebike and what is not. Park Rangers need an easy way to make a distinction. It's hard to enforce anything without being able to properly ID a category of Ebike.

And I agree on changing labels of Ebikes. A quick search on the internet allowed me to find vendors selling Class 1 & Class 2 labels.
 
pooriggy said:
The problem we face is knowing what is a Class 1 & 2 Ebike and what is not. Park Rangers need an easy way to make a distinction. It's hard to enforce anything without being able to properly ID a category of Ebike.

And I agree on changing labels of Ebikes. A quick search on the internet allowed me to find vendors selling Class 1 & Class 2 labels.
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How much$$$? Asking for a friend.
 
In general, I believe they do. My Heckler has a small sticker on the top tube indicating it's a Class 1, 250W, 20 MPH bike.

It seems like Class 3 bikes in the US are "supposed" to be regulated... but in reality... not really.
 
Ian F said:
In general, I believe they do. My Heckler has a small sticker on the top tube indicating it's a Class 1, 250W, 20 MPH bike.

It seems like Class 3 bikes in the US are "supposed" to be regulated... but in reality... not really.
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If you can post a pic of Class 1 sticker that would be helpful.

And anyone else that owns an Ebike that has a sticker with classification, please post up. This information will be helpful in allowing Park Rangers to identify classes of Ebikes. Thx
 
pooriggy said:
If you can post a pic of Class 1 sticker that would be helpful.

And anyone else that owns an Ebike that has a sticker with classification, please post up. This information will be helpful in allowing Park Rangers to identify classes of Ebikes. Thx
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Do they plan on stopping everyone on an Ebike? These stickers are about 3/4" x 1/2". One splash of mud and not visible at all.
 
Bike N Gear said:
Do they plan on stopping everyone on an Ebike? These stickers are about 3/4" x 1/2". One splash of mud and not visible at all.
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No.
Very often Park Rangers are not familiar with bikes/Ebikes and as a result are reluctant to enforce Ebike rules in parks. I have literally seen this type of bike at Hartshorne. This seems fairly obvious to me that its not a Class 1 or 2 Ebike, however to someone not familiar with bikes and no way to ID them, the floodgate is open. Proper identification will help Class 1 & 2 bikes imo. If someone hurts themselves on a Surron or another trail user in the MCPS, I can see all Ebikes getting kicked out. This would suck.

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pooriggy said:
No.
Very often Park Rangers are not familiar with bikes/Ebikes and as a result are reluctant to enforce Ebike rules in parks. I have literally seen this type of bike at Hartshorne. This seems fairly obvious to me that its not a Class 1 or 2 Ebike, however to someone not familiar with bikes and no way to ID them, the floodgate is open. Proper identification will help Class 1 & 2 bikes imo. If someone hurts themselves on a Surron or another trail user in the MCPS, I can see all Ebikes getting kicked out. This would suck.

View attachment 254425
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I've seen them too. Going to be a tough thing to enforce without full time park police out there.
 
Do park police actually get out of there vehicle? Serious question.
My experience maybe different.
 
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