Well you got that, for sure.
I love the idea of a team competition. Maybe a paper mâché Brian L Cup? 🙂
H2H 2011 Proposed Sched and Payout Schedule
- Thread starter wmbarace
- Start date
Well you got that, for sure.
I love the idea of a team competition. Maybe a paper mâché Brian L Cup? 🙂
ArmyOfNone
Well-Known Member
I think this is a good step. It is good to see that the promoters of the series are making a public effort to see what the racers are looking for. Ill say that even the few changes discussed here has me a lot more excited for the mtb season than previously.
Rome wasnt built in a day. Keep up the good work and I look forward to what is coming in the future.
Rome wasnt built in a day. Keep up the good work and I look forward to what is coming in the future.
I may be echoing others...
I like the idea of deeper payouts for pro's. I certainly do not race for the money. I do value my blingy medals way more than fifty bucks, especially years down the road. Pro is pro, race, win, get paid.
The 1 pm start really shoots the whole day, especially when the races get to be 2.5 to 3 hrs. I would love to see an afternoon with the family after a race (I did actually at SSaP). Early starts good.
I like the idea of deeper payouts for pro's. I certainly do not race for the money. I do value my blingy medals way more than fifty bucks, especially years down the road. Pro is pro, race, win, get paid.
The 1 pm start really shoots the whole day, especially when the races get to be 2.5 to 3 hrs. I would love to see an afternoon with the family after a race (I did actually at SSaP). Early starts good.
Would it be possible to start Cat 1 at 730, Cat 2 1030, Cat 3 1230 (depending on course times can change.)??
Logistically does it work to start the next Cat when more racers than the current format are still on the course?
All racers will be done around 130-2, opposed to 3-4pm.
There are some of us that come form Long Island, Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, and trying to get over the GW after 2pm on a Sunday is a nightmare. Not that I'm cleaning up in Cat 2, but the later Cat 1 start time will keep me in Cat 2 til I become a consistent sand bagger.
Thanks to everyone who makes the H2H a success!
Logistically does it work to start the next Cat when more racers than the current format are still on the course?
All racers will be done around 130-2, opposed to 3-4pm.
There are some of us that come form Long Island, Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, and trying to get over the GW after 2pm on a Sunday is a nightmare. Not that I'm cleaning up in Cat 2, but the later Cat 1 start time will keep me in Cat 2 til I become a consistent sand bagger.
Thanks to everyone who makes the H2H a success!
xc62701
Well-Known Member
The other side of the thinking is that for the Cat1/Pro level, you've committed so much time and effort getting there, at this point the race should be the focus of your day. It's nice to get other stuff done but at that time it gives the best setup for the race prep and a quality race. Cat 3's have less invested and go early to help with the conditions and other obligations. We want them to be excited and help this sport grow. I love the later starts, longer loops, and more laps. Bring it on...
The team competition is my idea, sparked from a request from Jorba. The goals of the team competition are to encourage racers to:
race in the highest class possible
get involved with a club or team
do team organized paydirt
encourage team members to do the above
Details will be announced after the new year.
Team competition awards are great. We have been doing this on the road and CX end for years. Top 3 riders from each team in the top 20 overall places gain points. It's a really nice thing for the rider who plugs along year after year but may not hit the top series individual points to be able to get up at the dinner and be recognized along with the rest of the team.
Larry, I will be in touch with you to get some details about how yours is done.
BiknBen
Well-Known Member
I agree with this. By the time you are Cat1/Pro, you should not be crying about having to get home and do chores. You spend hundreds of hours each year to train. The X hours on race day is a relatively small time commitment. It may be time to revisit your priorities/commitment and discuss it with others in your life so everyone is on the same page.
I totally agree wit you 2. As a first year Cat 1, there can be a lot of suffering and growing pains for some. I do not think it is the time of day, as much as adjusting one's schedule and priorities.
With that being said, I personally think the extra lap for pros is not needed and may not help our local pros to get any faster in XC at the elite level races. However it may serve as good training for the endurance pro. Just my thoughts, not an expert at that.
Nobody should be telling me what I should or shouldn't be prioritizing in my life. More than half of my biking hours are done when my family is asleep. To have to burn more family hours in 1 day than I do in a whole week is a huge hit to my home life. I'm not alone in this. I hear this repeatedly from people, both with and without kids. I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand.
The argument about cat 1/pro and the level of commitment is red herring. We all have day jobs, and this is still just a hobby, even for guys like Maurice and Monte. Nobody is putting in so many hours that they live and die with it. Nobody is making a career by winning the H2H series. When it comes down to it, the races fall off the plate first, in almost every case.
Conversely, I understand that the cat 3 racers today are the cat 2 racers of tomorrow. Sadly, in more cases than not, the cat 2 racers of today are not the cat 1 racers of tomorrow. I hope that this new payout distribution encourages huge open pro classes, and more people make the jump to cat 1 because they seem more realistic now.
I also understand that course conditions will be best when the day starts, and as such the cat 3 racers do benefit from not having to ride in the potential bad trail conditions later in the day.
However, my class went from 27 finishers to 12 from the first to last race. You can break out the priority arguments til the cows come home. But it's not a legit argument and it's not addressing the problem.
The survey is still open!
Very well put & I couldn't agree more.
BiknBen
Well-Known Member
The argument about start times is what should be stopped. The promoters have to cater to the majority. They can't concern themselves with the one racer trying to get back over the bridge before the traffic builds. Or the other guy who has to make it home to babysit. No matter what time these things go off someone is going to complain that they are inconvenienced. I say let the promoter determine start times based on their experience and be done with it.
Maybe I should use the term compromise instead of prioritize. I prefer Saturday races but I realize that isn't going to fly. Therefore, I stay quiet and compromise/re-prioritize.
xc62701
Well-Known Member
That can be attributed to many more factors than just late starting time. It's totally a legit argument and to dismiss that is rediculous. I know that most of us are not racing for a career and it's all for fun but it's a commitment no matter how you look at it. If you are dedicated to training and doing your very best that day, then that should be your focus of the day - and it takes most of the day certainly. Yes for a lot of situations the late start time is not the best but it's your choice to sign up and compete. It's up to you to set your priorities and it looks like you have yours all set.
xc62701
Well-Known Member
Compromise or prioritize or bastardize - whatever you want to call it - it's not the best for any one demographic. It's what's been working for years and always discussed even though the topic comes up each season. You make it work for you the best you can. I think all of the endurance races should move to NJ since it's hard to drive the many hours and put aside other possible commitments, but that's not happening any time soon either...
Same here, but I would like to hear what your thoughts are on why Sat won't fly. CX and Road has plenty of Sat races it seems like. I think 2/3 of America consider themselves Christian?
Maybe mix it up a bit between Sat and Sundays.
Dusty the Whale
Mr.Chainsaw
I work Saturdays in the summer. If H2H races were on Saturdays I'd be racing MASS on Sundays...and some of those are just way too far.
let's not get into a philosophical debate on what day works best for what group. the fact is, there is no way to make everyone happy so it will ALWAYS be a compromise. period. and yes, you do have to make it work for you. that said, IMHO, if you want encourage people to move up, you need to play to the crowd a bit. make the races a more exciting event. norm says time and time again that the pro/expert/open races are a ghost town in terms of crowds. these are the most skilled guys but have the lowest turnouts. something is wrong with that scenario.
xc62701
Well-Known Member
The reasoning behind that seems to be that there is a LOT of setup work that needs to be done prior to a race and Saturday gives that opportunity for us working folk to get things done in preparation for Sunday. It's not cause we're anti-religion 🙂