Berms and Jumps and Flow
- Thread starter don
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don
Well-Known Member
That is awesome - I'm sure he wasn't slow on that T1 either!
My friend did the mods to Garrett's bike and I got to parking lot ride it a few weeks ago. It is really neat. The big 20" tires give you loads of traction and maybe more importantly a solid feel. The disc brakes on a smaller wheel are amazing. Not as little feeling as a normal BMX bike. Overall I can see guys that ride BMX get one of these as an excuse to explore and ride mtn bike trails. I remember Lenosky or Chase saying in one of the Decline or East Coast HC vids that the 26" DJ bike they were riding opens up more street lines than a BMX bike. I think that would be the same with this.
I too got to follow Garret and his son around Allaire. We also had Dom on a 26" DJ and Mike on a 24" DJ. I was on a 27.5 Nomad and GB's son on a 27.5 HT. All sorts of bikes but just riding around having fun.
Side note about the Finger's Crossed project - I noticed a few people on IG barking how this isn't BMX. My thinking is if he had the same parts to grab from in the late 70's Scot Breithrupt would be riding the same thing. MX is knobbies and suspension. How this isn't the definition of BMX I have no idea. Or am I looking at it all wrong?
Mountain Bike Mike
Well-Known Member
It is certainly cool what they are doing, and the idea of it, the creativity, the fact that they did it, is the commendable part. However, is the suspension for old bodies (they reference GB wrist issues) or to push the limits of a bmx bike, or to just do something different? The brief DH BMX race era (xgmaes '97-'03? and events like Dreamline are these DH parks they are riding with steeper lips. (yes I understand dreamline and such became more about the trick dogs on huge ass jumps, more than the style dogs like GB and RA). I did find it amusing that they poke fun at the DH park guys in full gear...
Foster at an early dreamline
It is kinda funny that the wheel size debate has even touched 20" with people saying this isn't BMX. So is a 26" dirt jumper Bicycle Motorcross if it does everything a bmx can do, just with bigger wheels and a different cockpit set-up? Ironically, the cockpit of a mtb is closer to a motocross bike...So does wheel size matter? The flickability of a 20" is unmatched because of the smaller wheels, I remember saying to @Mountain Bike Mike when he started jumping Trenton with his Anthem 29er, and then a 26" DJ, that if he wants to make the most of trails, that feeling, to get back on a 20".
So sure, ride these big jumps and be more comfortable, but I think the obvious downside is when rocks and roots are introduced and long distances of pedaling...
Unfortunately the seat tube doesn't have the depth to get you close to the proper seat height unless you ran the post super high out of the frame.
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don
Well-Known Member
To try and answer your first question - I think all three. Watching videos of those 2 they might just be searching for that just right natural terrain that they can ride their 20" wheels on. Sure you could hand carve most any shape you can think of with a shovel and rake or discect and ride man made city features but maybe they are looking at it more from a surfer's perceptive? A swoopy gully in the woods that mom nature made? Granted you could (and many have) ride it on a mtn bike but they may envision riding it on a 20" BMX bike better in their mind.
And I agree - funny they made fun of the park guys in full gear. Dress for the slide not the ride
Rules! Didn't BF win the Posh high air contest this past summer with the same trick?
I've been telling myself for years the exact same thing: "the cockpit" of a modern mtn bike (enduro/dh especially) is way closer to a motocross motocycle than a 20" BMX bike. And the terrain they are ridden on is closer to an MX track then certainly a skatepark or even most BMX tracks with asphalt and concrete. Back in the 80's when I raced BMX I used my 24" cruiser just as much if not more than my 20" during the week jumping and just riding around. I've kept all my old BMX Action magazines and within the pictures and stories there is plenty of content on the 24" (and 26") cruisers. My current DJ bike has more aggressive and tighter geometry than my old race cruiser. It's not as flickable as a modern 20" but not that far off. A good bmx rider should be able to do the same tricks on it that they do on a 20" bike.
For me I get very close to that feeling. Getting older the 26" DJ is the perfect balance of "that feeling" but not the twitchy/scary feeling of riding a 20"
I feel like the people that have issue with it are the mid-school BMXers. They were too young to remember cruisers being ridden in the earlier days of BMX and too old to experience the freeride/DJ guys showing how you can get rad on a mtn bike.
I mentioned on PB about some of the Stowe, VT riders out of Irie Cycles of the early 2000's. I lot of them rode HT's with slammed seats, singlespeed and a fat 24" Gazzoladi on the back. Riding with Garret that day reminded me a lot of those guys (Jersey Dave Packie, Hardie Avery, and Jonathon if any one rode there back then). Here is a clip of Sniggle Unrest - very grainy and a little hard to watch compared to modern vids but a quick scan you can see JD on the Evil with 24" rear wheel in a lot of shots:
JD's Evil is not that far off from GB's modified T1. Not many rode more singletrack (aka sniggle) than JD back then and the amount of climbing/descending and roots/rock in Stowe is large.
I certainly get your point and I think a modern trail bike makes the ride more fun, efficient and comfortable than anything that has ever been made before but for guys like Garret and Rueben those Finger Crossed bikes may satisfy an itch they have and we don't.
one piece crank
Well-Known Member
That Fingers Crossed Fat-20 is wicked!
I'm 6'4" so I've long outgrown my BMX-size comfort days. I rode my Banshee Scratch HT SS as my sole bike for 10 years - flag pole seatpost, 24" Nokian Gazz F&R. It was insanely comfortable trail bike compared to a BMX, and I could still drop the seatpost and hit the skatepark.
don
Well-Known Member
On the short ride I had on the modded T1 Fat-20 the big thing that stood out to me was the big tires. I've ridden a couple of 26" fat tire bikes and don't like the gyro effect. I think with the smaller 20" (and probably 24") it's not nearly as noticable but you still have that big footprint.
one piece crank
Well-Known Member
No exactly worthy of that title, just a by product of York, PA and riding with so of these guys:Manual King! Bonus for the second one on an EWR!
I was grom status when this stuff happened, but I did ride a bunch with the second generation Dorkin guys. Mark started come to my trails around '97 or '98 until he blew out his knee 360'ing a set
It is funny that I have ridden or skated most of these spots, which are all just school yards, tennis courts or the walmart parking lot, haha. In any case, loved Jone's no footed death trucks (3:02). Only rode with him a few times though.
At night or in the winter was when we rode street the most (obviously) and the hours of doing dumb manual lines with this guy are countless.
don
Well-Known Member
No exactly worthy of that title, just a by product of York, PA and riding with so of these guys:
I was grom status when this stuff happened, but I did ride a bunch with the second generation Dorkin guys. Mark started come to my trails around '97 or '98 until he blew out his knee 360'ing a set
It is funny that I have ridden or skated most of these spots, which are all just school yards, tennis courts or the walmart parking lot, haha. In any case, loved Jone's no footed death trucks (3:02). Only rode with him a few times though.
At night or in the winter was when we rode street the most (obviously) and the hours of doing dumb manual lines with this guy are countless.
haha - that's a great background to have! The Dorkin in York guys are legendary and to cross paths and ride with them I'm sure you were exposed to a LOT of really good riding. I still think you are worthy of that title BTW
Crazy story about Mark Eaton riding your trails and getting wrecked. Pretty amazing what he was doing in 1987. And consider yourself very lucky to have gotten to ride with Kevin Jones - I don't know much about flatland but that guy has mystical status.
BTW - if you listen to podcasts the Space Brothers one is really good. And has a decent amount of flatland coverage.
yeah, those guys pioneered so much on and off the bike, and Mark was way ahead of the curve with roller skating to film beside the lines they were ridinghaha - that's a great background to have! The Dorkin in York guys are legendary and to cross paths and ride with them I'm sure you were exposed to a LOT of really good riding. I still think you are worthy of that title BTW
Crazy story about Mark Eaton riding your trails and getting wrecked. Pretty amazing what he was doing in 1987. And consider yourself very lucky to have gotten to ride with Kevin Jones - I don't know much about flatland but that guy has mystical status.
BTW - if you listen to podcasts the Space Brothers one is really good. And has a decent amount of flatland coverage.
I was full on Skating until 11th grade when I started riding and really had no idea of the bmx scene. When I went to college, one flatland kid was like YORK?!!! That summer I meet all those guys And the flat lander kid from college came down to ride with some of those guys, he couldn’t believe it. Oddly enough be broke His collarbone at the same trails ?. Maybe something with them flatlanders in the air...
one piece crank
Well-Known Member
What time-frame is that, the Dorkin in York stuff?
Late 80 to around 2001
http://www.23mag.com/videos/dorkin/dorkin.htm
I entered the scene around ‘97 or ‘98 so would have been around when those last two video were done. Chase, Jones and Eaton or 10 years old then me so at around 30 at the time, they seemed OLD ?.
They still have the famous York jam.
don
Well-Known Member
Nice - that is defconfour's shop where GB is on the torch. Also quick footage from Hartshorne at the end.
don
Well-Known Member
That's great - what bike was Mike riding? It's always a treat to see what he has built and talk fabrication with him. And riding with him (and GB and Noah) is always a fun time too!