tubeless pro/con

I witnessed a pretty huge negative to using tubeless tires:
They can burp at the most inopportune moment. Let's say on an off camber downhill rock face. BURP = instant flat front tire = crash.
 
ytc100 said:
I witnessed a pretty huge negative to using tubeless tires:
They can burp at the most inopportune moment. Let's say on an off camber downhill rock face. BURP = instant flat front tire = crash.
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The same exact thing can happen with a tube with a bad puncture or mega snake bite.
 
stb222 said:
The same exact thing can happen with a tube with a bad puncture or mega snake bite.
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I once hit my front tire hard enough off camber to have the tube actually squeeze out between the tire bead and rim without it going flat.

While I agree that a tubed setup has the potential for going instantly flat from severe punctures or snakebites I doubt you could roll a tire/tube setup off the rim enough to cause any kind of air loss like I witnessed. Also I believe a severe front tire snake bite would be rare if not unheard of.
 
stb222 said:
The same exact thing can happen with a tube with a bad puncture or mega snake bite.
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Not only can it happen, but it sure does happen. Three days, three rides, 5 flats with 2 different tires. Had to crawl out of the woods twice as I ran out of tubes/patches... Snakebites, regular punctures, instant deflation etc.. For some reason the rear tire has been holding just fine (besides the too high pressure I run in it that makes them bounce all over the place). I guess I'm particularly unlucky with those two tires/tubes, but with tubeless occurrences like this are much less frequent.

Burping should not happen with non-defective UST tires/rims though.

Maurice
 
The issue I am referring to is not whether or not a tubed tire can get a flat. It's pretty obvious that they can.

I am talking about the potential for a tubeless tire to burp when in off-camber situations. I do not think a tubed tire could do that.

I know many of you are way in love with your tubeless setups because you don't get pinch flats any more. Big deal. I'd rather risk pinch flats than have my tire burp its air out while I'm trying to stay upright on the side of a rock.


Another issue I have with tubeless setups is the perceived advantage of running lower pressures. How does lower pressure with a significantly stiffer sidewall tire offer any improvement over regular tires? From what I've seen a regular sidewall tire with a light race tube can run just as low as a tubeless tire (at least for me with my current rim/tire combination).
The pressure ranges I've seen printed on the side of tubeless tires don't seem that much lower than tubed tires. I know that for you heavy guys you can get away with less pressure on a tubeless tire but with the stiffer sidewall do you really notice that much of a difference?
 
Take it easy, man.

Like I said a tubeless tire that burps has to have some kind of problem, I'd let the manufacturer know if I were the owner of that setup.

This is not a question of love/hate of a particular setup, it's a question of choosing the best setup for your riding style/capabilities/size of wallet.

And yes UST tires do roll better, IMO, due to lower pressures. The stiffer sidewall is there just so the tire doesn't roll off the rim. There is no way I can run the same pressures with tubes/regular tires without pinch flatting every 5 minutes. And the ride that results is a lot bouncier. But what do I know...

This is not a question of dissing someone else's setup or bike or whatever, it's about sharing experiences so that you may try or choose a setup more suited to your needs. Or take care of an existing problem so you don't run into a potentially dangerous issue next ride.
 
the sidewalls may be stiffer, scott, but the tread itself wont be at the lower pressure. that will allow the weel to roll as well as a tubes setup at higher pressure, but get better traction because the tread itself will conform to the trail.
 
I find tubeless most advantagous when there is snow on the ground or other low traction situations. Other than that, I don't think one is that much better than the other. Is tubeless tires were so great, why do the majority of downhill and mountain cross riders use tubes?
 
stb222 said:
Is tubeless tires were so great, why do the majority of downhill and mountain cross riders use tubes?
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Numbers mean nothing. Everybody Loves Raymond was the most popular show on TV for like 5 years.
 
this is true, I have a bike with tubes and one without, so I guess I am just even
 
Maurice, this is kind of on topic, but i read on mtbr that you did not have the best experience with the Mavic Crossmax ST wheel set, spokes I think. Are you still using that wheel set, and if so, as a tubeless setup?
 
Shaggz said:
Maurice, this is kind of on topic, but i read on mtbr that you did not have the best experience with the Mavic Crossmax ST wheel set, spokes I think. Are you still using that wheel set, and if so, as a tubeless setup?
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The wheels are great but for the spokes coming off problem. Mavic did replace the rear rim and all the spokes, and put plastic grommets in the holes that hold the spokes hub-side. Since then they've been flawless, no need to true, just a little bit of bearing pre-load adjustment. They say the '08 model will come with the grommets on, and for those looking at the SLRs the same problem applies.

These wheels are significantly lighter than my old XLs, and just as stiff. The bearings seem of better quality also, as they're as smooth now as day 1.

Those are my race wheels, and I do use them with tubeless tires exclusively. I had one flat in the first race this season but it was a bad batch of tires. You'd think the manufacturer would let you know before... I will typically go through two pairs of tires per season at the minimum (race day and pre-race day use only). My preference at the moment is for Maxxis Ignitors or Crossmark (when it's not too muddy) which I have yet to flat with (jinx...).

Maurice
 
Maurice - Who's not taking it easy? :)

Just clarifying my post as the answers so far had little to with the situation I was referring to.

I was just stating the fact that I saw this tire burp a huge quantity of air instantly in a situation where getting a flat was not good.

As this thread is about the pros and cons of tubeless setups I thought I'd share this experience.

Then all of the responses were like "Hey man you can get a flat with tubes too."


Shaggs - It wasn't my tire, but it was some kind of specialized on a Mavic 819 and the ride was at Blue Mtn.


I am not believing the pressure differences everyone talks about.
Convince me:

What pressure do you run tubed and what pressure do you run tubeless?
What are the low pressure limits printed on your UST tires? Your NON-UST tires?

I was able to drop 6psi just by switching rims and tires. Still tubed just different.
 
This was my tire that failed(specialized resolution bliss). To say it burped is an understatement, The bead exploded off the rim instantly then resealed itself with about 5-10lbs of pressure left in the tire. Maybe it was a bad tire maybe not, but I just can 't see a tubed setup failing in such an instantaneous manner.

I've used Maxxis ignitors with no problems before this and I liked them. For now though I'm sticking with tubes. I may give tubeless another try in the future, right now I'm injured and I've lost my confidence in UST.
 
but you do agree that whatever it is, Scott is wrong, and we should all berate him. right? :getsome: :D
 
I got me a set of tubeless wheels today. I was rolling with the same pressure i normally run. 35ish up front 40 rear. I felt like it was too much air. I dunno if it was bc of the stiffer sidewalls but thats my guess. I let a bit of air out and was rolling quite nicely.

I will say first impressions are the wheels feel way lighter, they roll faster, and smoother.

That was six mile, let me get back to you after sunday.
 
From Harlans blog:

I love dirt. Every one had a great time. Especially when Buck's front tire "dun blowed off" the rim in the middle of a down hill, and his tube came completely out, but didn't pop. Just tuck that baby back in and go!
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