Kingdom Trails trail closures

MadisonDan

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I tink quarantine restrictions have been eased in VT.
That’s all I got.

oh yeah, those assholes that broke in/trespasses/poached trails suck.
 
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capedoc

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Stairway to Heaven's Bench

@capedoc - make this song & video happen!

LOL - Believe it or not, I was planning on doing some sort of production on the Bench last summer. But....yeah, that thing happened before I even got there.

Read about this on social media. The selfishness of some individuals is astonishing. Things that make me SMH....
 

bergsnj

Well-Known Member
i've never been to KT but I'm on the side of the locals. All these bikers come into their sleepy town and car camp everywhere like hobos and probably spend very little money locally. But they come in and treat the place like a public park when it is private property that was generously given access to. If I owned land there i wouldn't let anyone ride on it.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
...probably spend very little money locally...

I don't think that's true. Are there people who go and spend little to nothing? Sure, no doubt. But even in the 5 years we've been going, the infrastructure changes have made it clear that people are putting plenty of cash into the economy. I would be willing to bet that the various team MTBNJ trips alone have injected a solid $20k into the local economy over that time, if not more.

Almost everyone I know spends locally when they go up. The house rentals, bike shop, coffee shops, supermarket, KT store, deli, ice cream, tiki bar, and so on. We're all on vacation when we go. I haven't seen anyone go up there and be a cheapskate.

That said, I have no idea if any of this goes back to the local landowners - I suspect not. So...as a local landowner, do you care if the owner of the tiki bar makes money hand over fist for 6 months of the year? I really don't know the answer to that question.

At the end of this NY state guy, it would have been far better if they just had the guy arrested.
 

Captain Brainstorm

Well-Known Member
I don't think that's true. Are there people who go and spend little to nothing? Sure, no doubt. But even in the 5 years we've been going, the infrastructure changes have made it clear that people are putting plenty of cash into the economy. I would be willing to bet that the various team MTBNJ trips alone have injected a solid $20k into the local economy over that time, if not more.

Almost everyone I know spends locally when they go up. The house rentals, bike shop, coffee shops, supermarket, KT store, deli, ice cream, tiki bar, and so on. We're all on vacation when we go. I haven't seen anyone go up there and be a cheapskate.

That said, I have no idea if any of this goes back to the local landowners - I suspect not. So...as a local landowner, do you care if the owner of the tiki bar makes money hand over fist for 6 months of the year? I really don't know the answer to that question.

At the end of this NY state guy, it would have been far better if they just had the guy arrested.

Spending half of my time up in VT, I can tell you that the revenue they generate during the summer is chicken-shit compared to what they make during the winter. Winter is their bread and butter. You also need to understand VT. All of the real locals (not the "flat-landers" who've relocated up there) were doing just fine before VT became a mountain biking destination, and they don't "need" mountain biking for revenue. On top of that, there is a growing level of disdain from the core group of local riders towards out-of-towners due to their complete lack of trail etiquette and consideration. There are many legit trails made by the locals that will never make it onto any map due to fear of people being boneheads. For example, I don't know how many times I've seen people duck ropes on trails closed for maintenance, or even in the process of being built! Shit, close to home even Ringwood was a shit-show this weekend of people not yielding to uphill riders, changing in the school lot (wonder when that will be closed off), I can't imagine a place where 5000 riders descend on a weekend. Many other destinations have it better than Kingdom because they don't rely as much on local land for access, and quite frankly they've made the terrain much more difficult, which discourages most of the less committed. Word has spread in VT though about the entire Kingdom episode, so don't be surprised to see similar happen elsewhere, and expect the local riders to respect Fight Club rules.
 

roc

Well-Known Member
changing in the school lot (wonder when that will be closed off)

what’s the problem with that? Does anybody care if you change at a parking lot/trailhead? As long as nobody sees you naked, its fine right? I hope so, I’ve changed in a lot spots for sports after work, biking, a lot of stuff.
 

Captain Brainstorm

Well-Known Member

Ok, but there are lots of non-bikers that park there, and locals who use the fields, walk their dogs, etc. There are also cameras on the school. Sure, things are different right now because of corona, but this is how it was before also, and now there's 5x as many people parking there. Who wants to see a bunch of dudes and their dad-bods getting naked and walking around in towels? Do we really need to give people another reason to push for lot closure? What's so hard about changing in the fuckin car?
 

roc

Well-Known Member
Who wants to see a bunch of dudes and their dad-bods getting naked and walking around in towels? Do we really need to give people another reason to push for lot closure? What's so hard about changing in the fuckin car?
[/QUOTE]

very Tough to argue the point about seeing my dad bod, but it’s impossible to get dressed in the car.
I don’t care at all if people change quickly Before/after a ride, and really can not think of any reason, why anybody should give a shit. I’m not talking about some creepy/lewd behavior. I’m talking about somebody changing out of sweaty gross clothes after a 90% humidity ride. I have kids, been hiking/riding with them since they were young, saw people changing at trailheads, just doesn’t bother me.
 

bergsnj

Well-Known Member
I don't think that's true. Are there people who go and spend little to nothing? Sure, no doubt. But even in the 5 years we've been going, the infrastructure changes have made it clear that people are putting plenty of cash into the economy. I would be willing to bet that the various team MTBNJ trips alone have injected a solid $20k into the local economy over that time, if not more.

Almost everyone I know spends locally when they go up. The house rentals, bike shop, coffee shops, supermarket, KT store, deli, ice cream, tiki bar, and so on. We're all on vacation when we go. I haven't seen anyone go up there and be a cheapskate.

I know the MTBNJ folks are some of the finest MTB people in the land. But I'm talking about the youtube people who come in their quasi-winnebago, euro conversion van that they loaded up with bottled water and cliff bars from wallmart. This is the hot trend, lots of videos out there specifically on how to car camp on an mtb trip without getting caught. These people are not buying $8 boutique coffees or antiquing between rides.
 

Captain Brainstorm

Well-Known Member
Who wants to see a bunch of dudes and their dad-bods getting naked and walking around in towels? Do we really need to give people another reason to push for lot closure? What's so hard about changing in the fuckin car?

very Tough to argue the point about seeing my dad bod, but it’s impossible to get dressed in the car.
I don’t care at all if people change quickly Before/after a ride, and really can not think of any reason, why anybody should give a shit. I’m not talking about some creepy/lewd behavior. I’m talking about somebody changing out of sweaty gross clothes after a 90% humidity ride. I have kids, been hiking/riding with them since they were young, saw people changing at trailheads, just doesn’t bother me.
[/QUOTE]

Ok, then go park at Lot C, Lot A, or Sheppard Lake. Those are the trail heads and not the middle school, which is not part of the park in any capacity.

Or we can just debate this again in a few years when everyone is on here bitching that the school isn't letting us park there anymore.
 

graveyardman67

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I'd have to disagree that Burke was on a steady path before MTB. Recent issues aside, MTB has brought a massive change to the town. Burke Mtn as a ski area was dead 5 times over during the last 30 years. Even after Quiros and Stanger took over the development was mired in controversy and has yet to turn a good year (winter). I would hardly say they were doing fine (or are from the ski area).

I've lived on and off in Vermont since the early 70's, my family still lives there (and has had land since the 30's) and it's changed. Oh my, it has changed. Like many underdeveloped areas in the US, change may have come a little too fast. Some people resent that change and others embrace it. In general, most people would prefer to have some level of prosperity where they live. I can remember going to Burke in the 80's; it wasn't the picture of growth. Even the change from 2008 to now is tremendous (I delivered a Harley with my Dad back then).

It's unfortunate that shitheads just come with the percentages. I think using your "changing in the parking lot" to be an analogy for the overall MTB community behavior (or overall behavior). Especially during the next 4-5 weeks, people are changing after 2-hour ride. I agree some discretion should be exercised so I carry a changing robe. No need to see my Dadbod ;). If you really want to imagine whats going on underneath, be my guest.

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People just need to have some consideration and respect. Unfortunately this is not the case and it's going on all around us and not limited to Mountina Bikers.
 

roc

Well-Known Member
very Tough to argue the point about seeing my dad bod, but it’s impossible to get dressed in the car.
I don’t care at all if people change quickly Before/after a ride, and really can not think of any reason, why anybody should give a shit. I’m not talking about some creepy/lewd behavior. I’m talking about somebody changing out of sweaty gross clothes after a 90% humidity ride. I have kids, been hiking/riding with them since they were young, saw people changing at trailheads, just doesn’t bother me.

Ok, then go park at Lot C, Lot A, or Sheppard Lake. Those are the trail heads and not the middle school, which is not part of the park in any capacity.

Or we can just debate this again in a few years when everyone is on here bitching that the school isn't letting us park there anymore.
[/QUOTE]
didn't mean to offend you, you seem very angry. Seacrest out.
 

Captain Brainstorm

Well-Known Member
Ok, then go park at Lot C, Lot A, or Sheppard Lake. Those are the trail heads and not the middle school, which is not part of the park in any capacity.

Or we can just debate this again in a few years when everyone is on here bitching that the school isn't letting us park there anymore.
didn't mean to offend you, you seem very angry. Seacrest out.
[/QUOTE]

Yea, I am angry because everyone always finds a way to ruin a good thing by justifying their individual behavior. Consider the big picture from the perspective of a local or the school. People with bikes on their roofs driving fast through the neighborhoods, blasting music while they drive through, people hanging in the lot drinking after rides, littering, and people changing. Its a middle school, not a trail head.

This is us. I'm not surprised at all by whats happening in Kingdom. Later.
 

dmkalemba

Well-Known Member
I don't get the changing in the parking lot thing. I put a blanket on my seat and drive home (with the windows open if I really stank). Not a big deal. And if you can't slip your pants off and slide into a pair of shorts in your car fo you really have the dexterity to mountain bike.... come on.
 
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