Hartshorne/Huber Conditions

rustynuts

Well-Known Member
I’m talking about a bridge through Claypit connector into hartshorne where they threw those tree round discs or stumps. Hart def has more than one area that needs some love.
Bone buster has been a steady decline and now it’s crazy washed out and sandy.
 

SmooveP

Well-Known Member
2 separate conversations going on regarding 2 different areas.
1) The water tower trail (aka "Bone Buster Bing Bong" on Strava) is going through its typical annual cycle where it gets dry and loose, then followed by torrential rain that undermines the "steps", then add some bike/foot traffic to chop it up some more. It eventually gets smoothed out (so far anyway), but the trail gets increasingly channelled out of the hill over the years. The top layer of stable dirt is long gone, leaving sand, stone and exposed roots. Not easily fixed IMHO.
2) The Claypit connector trail has a low-lying area that gets very muddy both before and after the small wooden bridge near Hartshorne Rd. The Park System's solution has been to dump loads of wood chips in there, which has been a band-aid at best. The last time they did this, they added "stepping stones" made of tree trunk slices. As noted, there's a wood bridge there now. Seems like if they had made it a bit longer, it could span the low lying areas.
 
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RobW

Well-Known Member
2 separate conversations going on regarding 2 different areas.
1) The water tower trail (aka "Bone Buster Bing Bong" on Strava) is going through its typical annual cycle where it gets dry and loose, then followed by torrential rain that undermines the "steps", then add some bike/foot traffic to chop it up some more. It eventually gets smoothed out (so far anyway), but the trail gets increasingly channelled out of the hill over the years. The top layer of stable dirt is long gone, leaving sand, stone and exposed roots. Not easily fixed IMHO.
2) The Claypit connector trail has a low-lying area that gets very muddy both before and after the small wooden bridge near Hartshorne Rd. The Park System's solution has been to dump loads of wood chips in there, which has been a band-aid at best. The last time they did this, they added "stepping stones" made of tree trunk slices. As noted, there's a wood bridge there now. Seems like if they had made it a bit longer, it could span the low lying areas.
thank you! its pretty difficult to understand where someone is speaking of when there are multiple areas that need work.


how is that wet spot doing on rocky point after bridge? last I saw they brought stone in
 

SmooveP

Well-Known Member
thank you! its pretty difficult to understand where someone is speaking of when there are multiple areas that need work.


how is that wet spot doing on rocky point after bridge? last I saw they brought stone in
Everything is bone dry at this point. Last rider in a group will be literally eating dust.
 

Karate Monkey

Well-Known Member
2 separate conversations going on regarding 2 different areas.
1) The water tower trail (aka "Bone Buster Bing Bong" on Strava) is going through its typical annual cycle where it gets dry and loose, then followed by torrential rain that undermines the "steps", then add some bike/foot traffic to chop it up some more. It eventually gets smoothed out (so far anyway), but the trail gets increasingly channelled out of the hill over the years. The top layer of stable dirt is long gone, leaving sand, stone and exposed roots. Not easily fixed IMHO.
2) The Claypit connector trail has a low-lying area that gets very muddy both before and after the small wooden bridge near Hartshorne Rd. The Park System's solution has been to dump loads of wood chips in there, which has been a band-aid at best. The last time they did this, they added "stepping stones" made of tree trunk slices. As noted, there's a wood bridge there now. Seems like if they had made it a bit longer, it could span the low lying areas.

The last time I asked about it, I got told they won't build a bridge, since that requires a permit. Even though there's already one there?
 

RobW

Well-Known Member
Since they won’t let jorba into moco parks. We should start a go fund me account for The park system or just Hartshorne with the effect of funds need to be used to fix the connector trail. That’s a win in itself.
 

SmooveP

Well-Known Member
The last time I asked about it, I got told they won't build a bridge, since that requires a permit. Even though there's already one there?
Maybe they can extend the existing bridge by adding "walkways" or whatever term that lets them weasel out of the permit process. Scoping out the surrounding land, the nearby swampy area appears to be even lower lying, so I always thought that a little grading could send the excess water in that direction.

The same topics come up every year. Cue the overgrowth complaints in 3, 2, 1...
 
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TimBay

Well-Known Member
IMHO, I don't mind the reroute at all at claypit connector. It's like 50 feet of road bypassing an equally boring section of trail. It works fine for the hikers, so fat chance they'll invest more into it. I'd rather tackle the prickers and figure out which section needs attention before totally getting blown out from rain.
 

Tim

aka sptimmy43
Maybe they can extend the existing bridge by adding "walkways" or whatever term that lets them weasel out of the permit process. Scoping out the surrounding land, the nearby swampy area appears to be even lower lying, so I always thought that a little grading could send the excess water in that direction.

The same topics come up every year. Cue the overgrowth complaints in 3, 2, 1...

I rode Hartshorne today and sections of Rocky Point and Grand Tour are already getting pretty overgrown...

? ? ? ? ?

Seriously though, this is pretty much the same conversation I have seen happen on this site every year since I joined.

In my opinion the place is bullet proof. Mother nature takes her toll, as she does with any park/trail system, but it's almost always rideable. The trails are not the same as they were a few months or years ago but they're still fun to ride.
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
Hey all - take the "ideas" into their own thread(s) - will help with focus.
Let me know if I should move them to maintain the content.
 

don

Well-Known Member
I was talking about bone buster Bing bong, the section with those roots and water bars. I thought that's what was mentioned being washed out. If so, I stand by the fact that it's not often used by hikers and is such a small loop that they'd likely just shut that 1 section down rather than address it.

You're 100% right that the availability of TM doesn't do enough for the trails. I will say that when I went last fall, they basically let me lead my group and do what I wanted. They have also listened to us when we've presented problem areas to address. While more frequent small groups would definitely be great, we're stuck with the main issue being that a park officer has to be present for any TM, which limits the ability to do more frequent maintenance.

What we can do is keep them posted on what we find as issues and actually show up to the sessions that are there. I think we only had 4-5 mtbnj members there last time. In my opinion, we should strive for triple that number in the future. Gotta work with what we got.

Many thanks for that info and post.

I haven't been to a TM in years as I got really frustrated on the last one doing work on the fireroad where there is so much better use of the workers skills. But it sounds like the TM's have changed for the better if they are asking where there are problem areas and that you got to lead your own group.

And you are totally correct in having more mtn bike users there. Another reason for my absence is that Saturday mornings are very hard if you have kids/family. Even if you could get that number up to 6 material moving and organized mtn bikers you can get a lot done in a 2-3 hour TM. I think the next step is if the TM's are so infrequent is to pinpoint the problems areas and go into the TM with a solid plan thought thoroughly by the local riders/users. And that is something a park officer doesn't have to be there for.
 

don

Well-Known Member
I rode Hartshorne today and sections of Rocky Point and Grand Tour are already getting pretty overgrown...

? ? ? ? ?

Seriously though, this is pretty much the same conversation I have seen happen on this site every year since I joined.

In my opinion the place is bullet proof. Mother nature takes her toll, as she does with any park/trail system, but it's almost always rideable. The trails are not the same as they were a few months or years ago but they're still fun to ride.

You are correct that the place is pretty bullet proof. I think someone mentioned before that 80% of the trails are really good 99% of the time. It's the steeper stuff that gets messed up after a storm of even in general. But even then it's somewhat usable - frustrating to ride but ridable/usable.
 

Ronnie B

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure we are talking about the same area ? . I was talking about (and I believe KM as well) the slope near the water tower. Where it says "Grand Tour Trails" and "hill top" on this map: https://www.mtbnj.com/forum/threads/trail-maps.17/#lg=post-19&slide=1

If that's not what you guys and KM were speaking of then disregard my comments, haha (although I still stand by that section of trail needed a major fix/reroute).

Rusty thanks for the props but I am still learning and I just try and study things I what good trail builders post on IG. And I try and learn from the work I've done on various projects. I've made lots of mistakes but the good thing about dirt/wood/rock it is easy to change.

I agree that the Covid will make it tough for TM's. And I'm going to sound like an asshole but I think the current TM model isn't great anyways. I'm sure there are reasons why with insurance and organization but I feel a 2-3 person crew mid-week 1-2 hours is the way to go.
I know the general area of what you're referring too, if you're on Cuesta Ridge heading to Buttermilk lot, you make a right at Grand Tour trail and head up an hill where you come across another fire road (red arrow) like Cuesta Ridge that is unmapped and you loop around till you cross the unmapped fire road again and that takes you back to Cuesta Ridge, from there if you continue straight across you come to Laurel Ridge, now the section (black arrow) between the unmapped fire road and Cuesta Ridge, is that the trail you're talking about? It goes downhill and its probably the hairiest part of Hartshorne Woods for me to ride, I have flown over the handlebars once and have had several close calls, I like the challenge but I will avoid if I'm not feeling 100% brave that day. :D

hartshorne_woods.jpg
 

Karate Monkey

Well-Known Member
You are correct that the place is pretty bullet proof. I think someone mentioned before that 80% of the trails are really good 99% of the time. It's the steeper stuff that gets messed up after a storm of even in general. But even then it's somewhat usable - frustrating to ride but ridable/usable.

This is true, but it still hurts to see people who either don't care/should know better (at least in my mind, there is certain gear/tire choices that are associated with people who "should know better"). The first one is a lost cause, but the second one stings.

I know the general area of what you're referring too, if you're on Cuesta Ridge heading to Buttermilk lot, you make a right at Grand Tour trail and head up an hill where you come across another fire road (red arrow) like Cuesta Ridge that is unmapped and you loop around till you cross the unmapped fire road again and that takes you back to Cuesta Ridge, from there if you continue straight across you come to Laurel Ridge, now the section (black arrow) between the unmapped fire road and Cuesta Ridge, is that the trail you're talking about? It goes downhill and its probably the hairiest part of Hartshorne Woods for me to ride, I have flown over the handlebars once and have had several close calls, I like the challenge but I will avoid if I'm not feeling 100% brave that day. :D

Yes, that is one of the sections in question that is being talked about. Hairy is a good word for it, but it isn't unreasonable to consider that the difference between a 'safe' trip down and a top 10 time is 30 seconds or less. Conditions need to be more or less perfect (after a light rain/during the winter) to get much faster without a high chance of hurting yourself. It's not even the roots/rocks, it is the sand that collects in two corners.
 

don

Well-Known Member
I know the general area of what you're referring too, if you're on Cuesta Ridge heading to Buttermilk lot, you make a right at Grand Tour trail and head up an hill where you come across another fire road (red arrow) like Cuesta Ridge that is unmapped and you loop around till you cross the unmapped fire road again and that takes you back to Cuesta Ridge, from there if you continue straight across you come to Laurel Ridge, now the section (black arrow) between the unmapped fire road and Cuesta Ridge, is that the trail you're talking about? It goes downhill and its probably the hairiest part of Hartshorne Woods for me to ride, I have flown over the handlebars once and have had several close calls, I like the challenge but I will avoid if I'm not feeling 100% brave that day. :D

Bingo - that is the section I was talking about. There are a couple of other messy bits of trail in Hart but that has been a disaster for decades. I think the "waterbar" logs put there many years ago actually f'd that section up more than anything else. Combine that with the slope and material and it gets chewed up and makes it a challenge. It's always ridable but I think something more consistently fun, safer and more sustainable could be built on that side slope.
 

don

Well-Known Member
This is true, but it still hurts to see people who either don't care/should know better (at least in my mind, there is certain gear/tire choices that are associated with people who "should know better"). The first one is a lost cause, but the second one stings.

Yes, that is one of the sections in question that is being talked about. Hairy is a good word for it, but it isn't unreasonable to consider that the difference between a 'safe' trip down and a top 10 time is 30 seconds or less. Conditions need to be more or less perfect (after a light rain/during the winter) to get much faster without a high chance of hurting yourself. It's not even the roots/rocks, it is the sand that collects in two corners.

I didn't see the tracks/ruts so I bet seeing them in person made it more frustrating - like you said the 2nd one must have stung to see.

I've gone down that at a pretty decent clip with someone random right on my ass towards the end. Now that was frustrating as I wasn't poking along and have gotten loose enough on that line to know what is a safe but quick trip down. On someone's ass isn't good for anyone.
 

Scottkw34

New Member
Thinking about riding here tomorrow. Any report on conditions? I’m Assuming they’re good, but Wanted to double check. Coming from a little over an hour away/2nd time riding here. Thanks, Scott
 

Tim

aka sptimmy43
Thinking about riding here tomorrow. Any report on conditions? I’m Assuming they’re good, but Wanted to double check. Coming from a little over an hour away/2nd time riding here. Thanks, Scott

I rode Harts and Huber after work today. It's good to go. Watch for dry, loose, sugary sand in the corners below downhill sections.
 

Ronnie B

Well-Known Member
I rode Harts and Huber after work today. It's good to go. Watch for dry, loose, sugary sand in the corners below downhill sections.
I was there too from 2pm-4pm.

Rocky Point trail needs a trimming badly, part of the section the brush was so heavy I couldn't see further than 5 feet in front of me, someone is going to smack someone or each other.
 

Scottkw34

New Member
I rode Harts and Huber after work today. It's good to go. Watch for dry, loose, sugary sand in the corners below downhill sections.
Thx for the update. Was bragging to my cousin “I really haven’t had a hard fall in about 4 years “
after surviving a steep technical downhill, I passed a guy who said “yeah dawg!!” I started laughing a little, hit that white loose sand ON A STRAIGHTAWAY, lost the front wheel went over the bars. Lol, I sat up in disbelief. Skinned knee and bruised my back and ego. Don’t have the lungs for that place. Awesome ride tho. “Yeah dawg!”
 

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