First fully accessible bike trail at Jungle

jdog

Shop: Halter's Cycles
Shop Keep
So proud of what JORBA is doing, like @jdog i feel everyone should be a member of JORBA. Imagine all the other parks we could do similar work in.
I just noticed that VMBA has over 9000 members.. NJ has some major catching up to do.


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johnbryanpeters

Well-Known Member
It'd be interesting in both NJ and VT if we had some measure of how many riders in each of our states. That'd make membership data more informative.
 

serviceguy

Well-Known Member
It'd be interesting in both NJ and VT if we had some measure of how many riders in each of our states. That'd make membership data more informative.
Amen. How many members in the Jamaican ski club vs the Dolomiti one? I’m greatly exaggerating in the comparison but I believe that would be a more accurate evaluation. I do believe JORBA would still be undersized compared to VMBA even based on the number or riders of each state. What is different? Maybe the name? How does NJMBA sound? Step aside NJ Mortgage Bankers Association!
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Structurally, does JORBA have what in VMBA are chapters?

We do not.

This is not hard science but you can get a rough estimate using TrailForks data.

NJ ridden counter: 290k
VT ridden counter: 746k

You can use that to roughly argue that NJ has 35-40% of the riders VT does. If VMBA has 9000 members, then NJ should have around 3500 members. I just checked the numbers and JORBA is sitting at 535.

Very back of the napkin says NJ is at 1/7 of VT in terms of riders-to-member ratio. While this may not be exact, it's probably not too far from the truth.
 

rick81721

Lothar
We do not.

This is not hard science but you can get a rough estimate using TrailForks data.

NJ ridden counter: 290k
VT ridden counter: 746k

You can use that to roughly argue that NJ has 35-40% of the riders VT does. If VMBA has 9000 members, then NJ should have around 3500 members. I just checked the numbers and JORBA is sitting at 535.

Very back of the napkin says NJ is at 1/7 of VT in terms of riders-to-member ratio. While this may not be exact, it's probably not too far from the truth.
I find it hard to believe that a state with less than 10% of the population of NJ has three times more people who mountain bike. I haven't seen state breakdowns, but for the country, about 3% of the population says they mountain bike. Perhaps more people in VT use trailforks? Or VT trailforks trails are ridden more often by the same people? Or both? How many people use trailforks? I never have.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I find it hard to believe that a state with less than 10% of the population of NJ has three times more people who mountain bike. I haven't seen state breakdowns, but for the country, about 3% of the population says they mountain bike. Perhaps more people in VT use trailforks? Or VT trailforks trails are ridden more often by the same people? Or both? How many people use trailforks? I never have.

Bring a different metric to the table than, “I don’t like yours so I choose not to believe it.”

Maybe figure out the number of bike shops in each state or something.

Regardless, if you are right it more firmly establishes my point.
 

johnbryanpeters

Well-Known Member
We do not.

This is not hard science but you can get a rough estimate using TrailForks data.

NJ ridden counter: 290k
VT ridden counter: 746k

You can use that to roughly argue that NJ has 35-40% of the riders VT does. If VMBA has 9000 members, then NJ should have around 3500 members. I just checked the numbers and JORBA is sitting at 535.

Very back of the napkin says NJ is at 1/7 of VT in terms of riders-to-member ratio. While this may not be exact, it's probably not too far from the truth.
So here's a possible structural difference: VMBA, and, I suspect, NEMBA, evolved from a loosely associated federation of local clubs that very cautiously, over a period of maybe five years, with the clubs becoming chapters; the chapters are independent, with local membership (one can join more than one chapter).

I suspect that the increased membership is due to the local structure; if your riding buddies are in, you're more likely to join. If you like riding trails of another chapter, like Slate Valley, say, you're more likely to join that chapter also to support the trails that they build and maintain.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
So here's a possible structural difference: VMBA, and, I suspect, NEMBA, evolved from a loosely associated federation of local clubs that very cautiously, over a period of maybe five years, with the clubs becoming chapters; the chapters are independent, with local membership (one can join more than one chapter).

I suspect that the increased membership is due to the local structure; if your riding buddies are in, you're more likely to join. If you like riding trails of another chapter, like Slate Valley, say, you're more likely to join that chapter also to support the trails that they build and maintain.

Very interesting perspective, and you may be right. I also wonder about core culture differences (but this is probably a topic for a different discussion). I also imagine the governmental roadblocks that exist in NJ to get anything done turns people away. A lot of people join then never renew. Is that because they see how hard it is to get anything done? Meanwhile in VT, if you follow social media. they are machine building stuff like weekly in a different park.

Many factors, I am sure. Good thoughts on the above though.
 

johnbryanpeters

Well-Known Member
VMBA also established cooperative partnerships with Vermont Forests, Parks, & Recreation, Vermont Fish & Wildlife, and the USFS, allowing us to build and maintain on federal and state controlled lands.

That partnership, which continues, took at least a decade of negotiation and experimentation to establish. The hours that we put in on those lands is valuable to the government organizations as their budgets get cut. We trust them and their staff trusts us.
 

rick81721

Lothar
Bring a different metric to the table than, “I don’t like yours so I choose not to believe it.”

Maybe figure out the number of bike shops in each state or something.

Regardless, if you are right it more firmly establishes my point.

Well I quoted national figures - about 3% of the population. Let's say NJ is on the low side and there is only 1%. That's still 90K+. If we use your math for VT, there would 30 times more riders/population or 30% of the population would be mountain bikers. Which of course is nonsense.

Agree with the basic point tho re:membership. I would guess the vast majority of mountain bikers in NJ have never heard of Jorba.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Well I quoted national figures - about 3% of the population. Let's say NJ is on the low side and there is only 1%. That's still 90K+. If we use your math for VT, there would 30 times more riders/population or 30% of the population would be mountain bikers. Which of course is nonsense.

Agree with the basic point tho re:membership. I would guess the vast majority of mountain bikers in NJ have never heard of Jorba.

That would be an interesting experiment. Go to a random park and ask people if they even know what JORBA is. I have no idea how those numbers pan out. 10%? 70%?
 

rick81721

Lothar
That would be an interesting experiment. Go to a random park and ask people if they even know what JORBA is. I have no idea how those numbers pan out. 10%? 70%?

Out of curiosity I checked out a nearby club here in FL: SWAMP (SouthWest Association of Mountain bike Pedalers). They basically cover/maintain 6 state or county trail systems east of Tampa. They have 1000+ members! No idea how they do it but every trail system they work on has their name prominently displayed. They organize alot of rides and group events.
 
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JDurk

Well-Known Member
That would be an interesting experiment. Go to a random park and ask people if they even know what JORBA is. I have no idea how those numbers pan out. 10%? 70%?
I'll say less than 10% at all of my local parks in SJ. And a very small percentage of that 10% are JORBA members. Kresson gets published JORBA workdays, but it's not a destination, more of locals only park. All the others, gnomes do all the work.
 

JPark

Well-Known Member
It could be a simple as you get a ton of free stuff with a VMBA membership.
A free lift ticket to each of 5 downhill parks more than pays for the membership.
I don't think Mountain Creek even gives a jorba discount anymore.
The VT resorts also help promote VMBA. They frequently have a promo table set up at Killington.
 

johnbryanpeters

Well-Known Member
It could be a simple as you get a ton of free stuff with a VMBA membership.
A free lift ticket to each of 5 downhill parks more than pays for the membership.
I don't think Mountain Creek even gives a jorba discount anymore.
The VT resorts also help promote VMBA. They frequently have a promo table set up at Killington.
I have never used any of the "free stuff", which don't say much...
 

jmanic

JORBA Board Member/Chapter Leader
Staff member
JORBA.ORG
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Structurally, does JORBA have what in VMBA are chapters?
VMBA also established cooperative partnerships with Vermont Forests, Parks, & Recreation, Vermont Fish & Wildlife, and the USFS, allowing us to build and maintain on federal and state controlled lands.

That partnership, which continues, took at least a decade of negotiation and experimentation to establish. The hours that we put in on those lands is valuable to the government organizations as their budgets get cut. We trust them and their staff trusts us.
I think you have this correctly- VMBA chapters as I understand it are more independent, but fall under the VMBA umbrella.

JORBA chapters exist more directly under the JORBA tent.
There are almost 30 JORBA chapters, I think fewer in VT.

Also I would be curious how many VMBA members are from out of state.
I expect JORBA draws from NY/PA,
but likely not to the degree VMBA does.

Still wouldn’t fully explain the difference, but I’m curious.
 

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