Another Cyclist Murdered

Mahnken said:
For the record, and I've said this before, I'm not against people having guns. But pretending that more guns and less laws surrounding guns is the answer, is absurd. Why is there zero compromise on the issue? And if you're so dead set against any laws; What is the solution? What are we going to do to stop the violence? Can we quit it with the political left vs right bullshit and find some kind of middle ground on the issue? I don't think anyone has proposed taking anyone's guns away the way everyone is making it seem. So why not have more precautions in place on gun sales and ownership? And aside from that, what else can be done?
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We don’t have enough laws in NJ? How many more do we need?

Mahnken said:
There's a reason the drugs are in those communities. Read the book. We've created these impoverished, segregated, drug riddled communities. And have done nothing to help rectify the situation.
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And who exactly is the “we” here?
 
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sundaydoug said:
I saw this and thought there's no possible way there are more guns than there are people in this country. Wikipedia confirms, no other country is even close. Not passing judgement, just kind of a shocking statistic.

en.wikipedia.org

Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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So what? The percentage of families that own guns has basically stayed the same (45%) for the last 50 years. Yet the number of guns/capita has doubled. So all that means is the same, almost all law-abiding gun owners are buying more guns. And, as previously pointed out, over the same time period, the homicide rare has dropped almost in half.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...eholds-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/
 
rick81721 said:
So what? The percentage of families that own guns has basically stayed the same (45%) for the last 50 years. Yet the number of guns/capita has doubled. So all that means is the same, almost all law-abiding gun owners are buying more guns. And, as previously pointed out, over the same time period, the homicide rare has dropped almost in half.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...eholds-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/
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Correlation vs causation?

The country is already saturated with guns, obviously. So where do we go from here? What stops the gun violence?
 
rick81721 said:
So what? The percentage of families that own guns has basically stayed the same (45%) for the last 50 years. Yet the number of guns/capita has doubled. So all that means is the same, almost all law-abiding gun owners are buying more guns. And, as previously pointed out, over the same time period, the homicide rare has dropped almost in half.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...eholds-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/
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Again, I wasn't trying to draw any conclusions from it I was just shocked at the statistic. I'm not a gun guy and I'll probably never be a gun guy, but I'll agree that guns don't pull their own triggers.
 
Mahnken said:
Correlation vs causation?

The country is already saturated with guns, obviously. So where do we go from here? What stops the gun violence?
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Only point was more guns =/ more gun violence. As long as there are humans, there will be homicides and violence. First it was clubs and rocks, then slings, knives, arrows, projectile guns. In the future, they will use lasers and phased plasma weapons.

I have no problem with stronger national gun control laws - minimum 21 years old to buy any gun. Waiting period, background check and mental health check for all purchases. Stronger red flag laws.
 
rick81721 said:
I have no problem with stronger national gun control laws - minimum 21 years old to buy any gun. Waiting period, background check and mental health check for all purchases. Stronger red flag laws.
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I agree with this. The mental health check is important, but there will be the question of who pays for it.
I am not sure if driving while under the influence convictions also have any impact on eligibility.
 
JerseyPete said:
I agree with this. The mental health check is important, but there will be the question of who pays for it.
I am not sure if driving while under the influence convictions also have any impact on eligibility.
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I’m all for this too. I don’t mind stronger checks and red flag laws at all.

I feel like owners (like myself) just need to accept the cost of that check. Now this assessment of a $1.50 on ammo that Murphy just put in - maybe that should pay for it?

And btw - why do we need to pay $1.50 for every ammunition transaction now? My local range calls it the Governor’s ASS charge. Ammunition State Surcharge.
 
Mental health can deteriorate and so do skills...I would mandate periodic shooting range sessions and mental health check (every year or 2 years). We had to do that in the military. Isn't that something similar to what is required for airplane pilots? While not overly complicated, using a gun requires some dexterity in order to prevent hurting the shooter as well as others (unless they're the intended target that is). After all you get to shoot s&&t!
 
clarkenstein said:
I’m all for this too. I don’t mind stronger checks and red flag laws at all.

I feel like owners (like myself) just need to accept the cost of that check. Now this assessment of a $1.50 on ammo that Murphy just put in - maybe that should pay for it?

And btw - why do we need to pay $1.50 for every ammunition transaction now? My local range calls it the Governor’s ASS charge. Ammunition State Surcharge.
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The purpose of things like the $1.50 surcharge are just barriers to gun ownership.

All the issues in NJ with regards to guns is why I hardly shot mine. Every aspect from buying, traveling with, places to shoot, etc are purposely made difficult so that people like me become discouraged and don't bother. I was always concerned of traveling with even a Ruger 10/22 which is a kid's rifle if I ever got stopped on the way to the range.

We have taxes on guns/ammo already for Wildlife for the Pittman-Robinson act and I bet you won't find too many gun owners upset with that taxation and where the $$ goes.
 
Mahnken said:
For the record, and I've said this before, I'm not against people having guns. But pretending that more guns and less laws surrounding guns is the answer, is absurd. Why is there zero compromise on the issue? And if you're so dead set against any laws; What is the solution? What are we going to do to stop the violence? Can we quit it with the political left vs right bullshit and find some kind of middle ground on the issue? I don't think anyone has proposed taking anyone's guns away the way everyone is making it seem. So why not have more precautions in place on gun sales and ownership? And aside from that, what else can be done?
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So I haven’t seen anyone advocate on behalf of no gun laws. The problem, simply put, is that the laws we already have are so strict that they are nearly impossible for law abiding citizens to comply with. We don’t have “common sense” laws in NJ, we have damn near an outright prohibition on gun ownership.

Don’t believe me? Go try and get your FOID card and a purchase permit. You need both prior to buying a handgun in NJ. It’s doubtful you’ll even get those approved withhin 30 days (which is the maximum time allowed under the law). Think you might want to carry said gun? Try and get a license to carry. Bet you won’t get it within the 60 days mandated by law. It might take 6 months. Each one of these processes requires mental health checks, backgrounds checks, NICS checks, character references, proof of firearm proficiency training, and fingerprinting. The notion that there aren’t any laws is what is absurd.

As @Captain Brainstorm pointed out, it’s not that we want no laws, we just don’t want any more. The simple fact remains that people willing to kill are also willing to break gun laws. Guess what? Criminals don’t bother with all the stuff I just mentioned. So all the people that are actually mentally fit, care about protecting human life, and just want to have a chance to protect themselves, should they need to, are left trying to navigate a nearly impossible system while criminals go about their business unhindered.
 
rick81721 said:
Still don't see how it is "easy" at any age. Are you flat out asking your kids friends' parents if they have guns?
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I did this exact thing many times when my kids were fairly young. If I was dropping off one of my kids, I would ask the parents.
‘’Do you have guns in the house, and if you do, are they locked away, so the kids can‘t get to them?

I got some weird looks, but I really don’t think anybody lied to me, I think most of them just didn’t have guns.

I don’t get the whole gun loving thing, but I know plenty of people who have them responsibly. Just not my thing.
 
Tim said:
So I haven’t seen anyone advocate on behalf of no gun laws. The problem, simply put, is that the laws we already have are so strict that they are nearly impossible for law abiding citizens to comply with. We don’t have “common sense” laws in NJ, we have damn near an outright prohibition on gun ownership.

Don’t believe me? Go try and get your FOID card and a purchase permit. You need both prior to buying a handgun in NJ. It’s doubtful you’ll even get those approved withhin 30 days (which is the maximum time allowed under the law). Think you might want to carry said gun? Try and get a license to carry. Bet you won’t get it within the 60 days mandated by law. It might take 6 months. Each one of these processes requires mental health checks, backgrounds checks, NICS checks, character references, proof of firearm proficiency training, and fingerprinting. The notion that there aren’t any laws is what is absurd.

As @Captain Brainstorm pointed out, it’s not that we want no laws, we just don’t want any more. The simple fact remains that people willing to kill are also willing to break gun laws. Guess what? Criminals don’t bother with all the stuff I just mentioned. So all the people that are actually mentally fit, care about protecting human life, and just want to have a chance to protect themselves, should they need to, are left trying to navigate a nearly impossible system while criminals go about their business unhindered.
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idk, I really didn’t find it that hard for the ID card and which one of these procedures would you cut out? Which law is too hard to comply with?
 
roc said:
I don’t get the whole gun loving thing, but I know plenty of people who have them responsibly. Just not my thing.
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For me it’s a story of sorts on how I landed on this side of the fence.

I grew up with a father who was a gun “nut”. At any given time we would have up 40+ guns in the house. Every weekend was planned around a shoot, or hunting. He was a registered dealer and would appraise estate collections on the side of his day job. My dad picked up this from my grandfather.

My fathers collection was actually pretty incredible. Original (functional) Civil War carbines, muzzleloaders, antique shotguns, WWI and WWII originals, and lots of target competition guns. None of the tactical stuff that is so popular now. I have one from his collection now, my great grandfather’s 1904 single shot rifle he used to hunt with. A unique heirloom.

I grew up shooting competitively. And was pretty damn good. As I got older, family dynamics kicked in and I wanted nothing to do with my parents so I took a long break, and met my wife who was very anti-gun: no nerf guns allowed for my kids, etc. The one thing we did gun-related was put them through the Eddie Eagle program. The kids still remember it to this day. The NRA sucks but the Eddie Eagle program works.

I chose not to introduce my son to shooting the way my day did with me. But my son became interested on his own, mainly from video games like Fortnite to be honest.

I then decided it was time he learned reality. I wanted him to know guns aren’t anything like video games. After many discussions with my wife I have fully introduced my son to shooting and he loves it. It’s a great way for us to spend the day together. We talk the whole time, I get to teach him not just how to shoot but also the massive responsibilities one undertakes when handling a firearm. He now respects it in a way you never do until you go and try it yourself. I also believe that in the world we live in, it can’t hurt to know how to shoot, how powerful guns are, and how to make a gun safe. He is getting good too and may compete himself. He is debating that. To see him shoot his great-great-grandfather’s rifle is also pretty cool.

So for me, it’s become another thing I can do with my son just like riding, and that’s awesome. I passed the torch without it being a focus. I can thank video games for that…? My wife has done a 180. Is she “pro-gun”? No way. But she has been to the range with us and gets it. She isn’t interested in making it a thing but she also sees both sides versus one side of the “argument”. My daughter is younger and smaller and wants to try, but not now. She also has some sensory stuff, especially with loud noises so she won’t be going for a while, if at all. Completely up to her.

I’m just glad it’s another thing I can do with my kid when it’s raining that keeps him away from the online world. And for me selfishly, it was nice to get back into it. It’s fun being good at something. I’m entering my first competitive shoot next month so I’m hoping to see if I can manage now with crappier eyesight.
 
roc said:
I did this exact thing many times when my kids were fairly young. If I was dropping off one of my kids, I would ask the parents.
‘’Do you have guns in the house, and if you do, are they locked away, so the kids can‘t get to them?

I got some weird looks, but I really don’t think anybody lied to me, I think most of them just didn’t have guns.

I don’t get the whole gun loving thing, but I know plenty of people who have them responsibly. Just not my thing.
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I don’t get this. Do you also ask if the alcohol is locked up along with their bongs and vapes? What about risqué artwork? Do you actually expect them to answer you honestly? Quite frankly, what I legally have or don’t have in my house is none of anybody else’s Fuckin business.
 
clarkenstein said:
That’s part of the CC legal debate with the state legislation that’s being discussed in the courts. I’m still trying to catch up on where everything is in that process. It’s a moving target 🤪
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So for the sake of the conversation on carrying while riding it's illegal in state and county parks as of right now?
 
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