H2H 2011 Proposed Sched and Payout Schedule

BiknBen said:
The argument about start times is what should be stopped. The promoters have to cater to the majority. They can't concern themselves with the one racer trying to get back over the bridge before the traffic builds. Or the other guy who has to make it home to babysit. No matter what time these things go off someone is going to complain that they are inconvenienced. I say let the promoter determine start times based on their experience and be done with it.

Maybe I should use the term compromise instead of prioritize. I prefer Saturday races but I realize that isn't going to fly. Therefore, I stay quiet and compromise/re-prioritize.
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Agree. My n=1 sample on this is that every year I miss a few races, MTB and CX, b/c I have to choose what will keep life simplest, and I don't have kids, so I tip my hat to the folks that can pull all of that together. I'd love to have 2 parts of the day on race day - 1 at the race, 1 at home - but know that isn't possible in Cat 1, so I make sure my wife is cool with my race days and assuming I'm not travelling for work, I race. If one of those two get in the way, I don't. If I were chasing sponsorships, I'd likely have a different response, but those folks have their choices too. I could go back to Cat 2 to get some more time back but I don't want to do that (it definitely is attractive), so I'll just accept the few points I get and move on. It never bothered me one way or the other that no fans are on the course for Cat 1, and I would speculate that would still be the case if Cat 1 went super early as the crowds are in for 2 and 3. CX has a similar issue - I race B's to get a little more time in my day, but would be open to M35 if it started earlier. A few years ago, they moved the race starts forward 1hr and mixed fewer classes, which helped many, but those racing later got home later (but got more sleep). On most days when I can't race, I probably still get an early ride in, so for me, I'm happy with that, even though I would've preferred to race. When I don't get to ride at all, that's less fun.🙁

Having been involved with race organization for the first time this year, there are a million and one things to deal with the week of, the day before and the evening after, so if an individual promoter could adjust times, wonderful, but I think the predictability of start times is helpful to many. I'm glad to see the payout thing addressed, I would've gone a bit further with former winners below pro not being eligible for prizes, but the current adjustment is sound progress.

Maybe I'm used to the pace of corporate life! 😛
 
1. I agree that cat 3 should go first. 3's are the future of racing and this group needs the prime slot to encourage folks to come out and try it. Cat 1's are already committed racers, some one who trains 10+hrs a week will race when you tell them its on.

2. There is a dramatic drop off of racers in the cat 1 field. My take on this doesnt have anything to do with start times. As a cat 2 racer I do ok(top 5 finish usually) because the field is a bunch of average joes. Some fast guys some slow guys. The ones who put in time and effort into training do well. The guys who finish in the back 3rd are usually ok with there finish because they didnt really put a lot of time training anyway.
Cat 1 is a field of fast guys who all train hard and know how to race. I do not look forward to moving to cat 1 because now I have to train harder just to finish in the middle of the pack...and I have to race another lap. I know this is whining but this is the reality...it seperates the men from the boys.
 
I didn't mean to stir any kind of religious or philosophical debate or anything like that, although I do talk about church all the time in my blog.

My intention was to bring it up as a matter of economics, i.e. will there be more participants to Sat races as opposed to Sun races. More people = More money = Happy people hopefully.

Even take the religion thing out of the equation, will more people show up to Sat races just because of the fact that they'll have a day to rest on Sunday after the race. I don't know the answer, but I think it's worthwhile to explore if hasn't been tried or some surveys taken already.

The course setup explanation makes sense, but if more money is being generated, people can be hired to mark the course.
 
xc62701 said:
That can be attributed to many more factors than just late starting time. It's totally a legit argument and to dismiss that is rediculous. I know that most of us are not racing for a career and it's all for fun but it's a commitment no matter how you look at it. If you are dedicated to training and doing your very best that day, then that should be your focus of the day - and it takes most of the day certainly. Yes for a lot of situations the late start time is not the best but it's your choice to sign up and compete. It's up to you to set your priorities and it looks like you have yours all set.
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There is no reason a 2 to 3 hour race should occupy the whole day, which it currently does. To that extent I haven't done many H2H races because I feel for ME they are too time consuming. I do them when I can fit them in and have a great time while I can.

My alter-ego, having done a number of road races this year, had no problem with "dedication" in getting up at 4:30 am and driving nearly 2 hrs to do 2 (roughly) 40 minute races. And I was home by 1:00 to boot. Dedication and sacrifice are different. And go to bed earlier if you need more sleep!😉

I will continue to do races that fit my schedule and I am thankful that there are many choices.
 
I really wanted to stop reading this because I feel like its pointless to even have this thread, but what the hell;

At the level of pro/cat1, do you come to race to watch people cheer you on?

I've watched a couple of Cat 1/Pro races go off. I'm not sure what the in race discussion sounds like between riders. I watched the Jungle race after going through the feed zone and besides yelling at the people I knew and having a 5 second dialogue with them, I heard Ryan talking to another Bulldog dude and that was it. We would cheer, they wouldn't flinch. Do they care we are here?

This is a pretty generic statement so I don't mean to offend anyone;

No Cat1/Pro rider seems excited I'm watching them. I don't want you to be super excited to see humans yelling at you, but do you even notice anyone is cheering, or are you too focused on the goal ahead to realize what the hell is going on? You guys come through the zone all business and focused on keeping the hammer down, as you should.

I feel like more of a nuisance than a support to be watching. Does that mean I won't stand around and support my peoples? No.

I just got distracted at work from the rest of my post, so I will just leave it at that. I love all of you.
 
When I go to the race its a whole day gig. I usually get there for the start of cat3 and don't leave until at least the second lap of the pros.

Go to a NY Series race, its like a festival. Bring your wife, kids, BBQ and make a day of it.
 
I want the cheering. Yeah, I'm there for business, but on my 3rd lap I was disappointed that you guys weren't sitting there in your lawn chairs.

Think of the difference doing a cross race with versus without the cheering section. It's not quite that extreme. But it makes a difference.
 
Norm said:
I want the cheering. Yeah, I'm there for business, but on my 3rd lap I was disappointed that you guys weren't sitting there in your lawn chairs.
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I was in pain. I apologize for letting you down. I think at one point I was laying face down on the blanket after the mess of you passed Lap 2.

Norm said:
Think of the difference doing a cross race with versus without the cheering section. It's not quite that extreme. But it makes a difference.
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I thought cross was made for the spectators?
 
I have no idea, but from a racer perspective, it doesn't matter what it was made for, but how it affects me. I enjoy the spectators either way.
 
Come on! The only reason we even go to the races is for the screaming girls on the sides of the trails....!!!
 
pearl said:
I really wanted to stop reading this because I feel like its pointless to even have this thread, but what the hell;

At the level of pro/cat1, do you come to race to watch people cheer you on?

I've watched a couple of Cat 1/Pro races go off. I'm not sure what the in race discussion sounds like between riders. I watched the Jungle race after going through the feed zone and besides yelling at the people I knew and having a 5 second dialogue with them, I heard Ryan talking to another Bulldog dude and that was it. We would cheer, they wouldn't flinch. Do they care we are here?

This is a pretty generic statement so I don't mean to offend anyone;

No Cat1/Pro rider seems excited I'm watching them. I don't want you to be super excited to see humans yelling at you, but do you even notice anyone is cheering, or are you too focused on the goal ahead to realize what the hell is going on? You guys come through the zone all business and focused on keeping the hammer down, as you should.

I feel like more of a nuisance than a support to be watching. Does that mean I won't stand around and support my peoples? No.

I just got distracted at work from the rest of my post, so I will just leave it at that. I love all of you.
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That's a curious observation. I just thought it was me. Yes when I come through I am ALL business. I'm thinking about where to gain time and where the weakness and strengths are of my competitors and assessing how my race is going as well. But besides this and the utter look of pain on my face I totally appreciate the cheers from spectators. I usually have to recover a little bit after the start/finish with people cheering since it's makes me crank so much harder knowing people are cheering.
 
Pearl is full of crap. I heckled him for choosing such a lame spot to spectate (pavement/feed zone). On the next lap, I actively tried to run him over but he ran from me. The next lap he was gone. I think he was scared of what I may do to him.

I have all of this on video so don't make me go into video production mode.
 
soundz said:
Even take the religion thing out of the equation, will more people show up to Sat races just because of the fact that they'll have a day to rest on Sunday after the race. I don't know the answer, but I think it's worthwhile to explore if hasn't been tried or some surveys taken already.
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Excellent observation. I don't race and even though I have professed in the past that I'm not interested in racing, I will strongly be considering it next year. Having races on Saturday would be a huge benefit. I'd much rather go to parties on Saturdays and have Sunday to recover and the same thing would apply to an all day racing event. Not to mention, I'm a big NFL fan and I would be torn between racing and watching my beloved dolphins especially now that they have Chad Pennington back at qb and are getting ready to make their super bowl run.
 
The Saturday race thing is not very convenient for racers with kids who are in soccer, baseball, karate, paper mâché model building classes.
 
I have kids so I can relate to that. I counted 23 weeks from the first race to the last. So that's 8 races in 23 weeks; not that big of a deal with me. If you have kids that play soccer, then a tournament is on both days anyways.
 
From the Promotors side. Not enough time to mark a course and get all the registration paperwork done for a Satuday start.

CM
 
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