E-bikes are a thing

[rick81721]

Comparing an ebike to powered appliances isn’t really an accurate comparison. Bikes are primarily used for transportation exercise, it still puzzles me as to why one would like to make exercise easier, isn’t it supposed to be hard?

I don’t hate ebikes per se, I don’t think they really hurt the trails either. I do get a kick out of all the rationalizing that’s done to justify having an easy pedal up the hill because you like going downhill more than up though, people do get creative. Ebikes are not for me, I didn’t get into this sport because it was easy. I personally believe it should be hard. I also believe not everything in the world should be made easy and accessible to everyone. Some things should remain hard with a price of entry that should be paid in determination, blood, and sweat. Can’t make it up that hill? Do it till you’re in shape. Can’t clean that tech section? Same. I don’t see surfing, rock climbing, white water kayaking, etc. being made easy. Mountain biking used to in the same category as those sports.

I agree with your basic premise - but don't have an issue with experienced older folks getting ebikes to keep up. Your last analogy is apples to oranges tho (except kayaking) - cycling requires a mechanical device that propels you, rock climbing, swimming, running does not. But even in cycling, a better suspension makes it easier in rock gardens. Huge tire fatbikes are easier to ride in rocks, sand and snow. More gears make it easier to climb. Lighter, carbon fiber bikes are easier to climb. By your logic, everyone should be riding single speed, no suspension, steel bikes with 2" tires that weigh 35 lbs.

 

[rick81721]

had to look this up.
wow - times have changed.....
also need boater safety cert, and add to boat to license if used in non-tidal water.

Isn’t this the case everywhere?

 

[Patrick]

I agree with your basic premise - but don't have an issue with experienced older folks getting ebikes to keep up. Your last analogy is apples to oranges tho (except kayaking) - cycling requires a mechanical device that propels you, rock climbing, swimming, running does not. But even in cycling, a better suspension makes it easier in rock gardens. Huge tire fatbikes are easier to ride in rocks, sand and snow. More gears make it easier to climb. Lighter, carbon fiber bikes are easier to climb. By your logic, everyone should be riding single speed, no suspension, steel bikes with 2" tires that weigh 35 lbs.

I'm hollowing out a log right now...
fatbikes make it more fun, not easier. 😉

 

[iLuveketchup]

Comparing an ebike to powered appliances isn’t really an accurate comparison. Bikes are primarily used for transportation exercise, it still puzzles me as to why one would like to make exercise easier, isn’t it supposed to be hard?

I don’t hate ebikes per se, I don’t think they really hurt the trails either. I do get a kick out of all the rationalizing that’s done to justify having an easy pedal up the hill because you like going downhill more than up though, people do get creative. Ebikes are not for me, I didn’t get into this sport because it was easy. I personally believe it should be hard. I also believe not everything in the world should be made easy and accessible to everyone. Some things should remain hard with a price of entry that should be paid in determination, blood, and sweat. Can’t make it up that hill? Do it till you’re in shape. Can’t clean that tech section? Same. I don’t see surfing, rock climbing, white water kayaking, etc. being made easy. Mountain biking used to in the same category as those sports.

What about motorsports racing? Should dual clutch transmissions, which make changing gears easier/faster, be used? Only three pedal and shifter allowed (in your view)?

 

[rick81721]

I'm hollowing out a log right now...
fatbikes make it more fun, not easier. 😉

That's not what @JimN says!

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

I agree with your basic premise - but don't have an issue with experienced older folks getting ebikes to keep up. Your last analogy is apples to oranges tho (except kayaking) - cycling requires a mechanical device that propels you, rock climbing, swimming, running does not. But even in cycling, a better suspension makes it easier in rock gardens. Huge tire fatbikes are easier to ride in rocks, sand and snow. More gears make it easier to climb. Lighter, carbon fiber bikes are easier to climb. By your logic, everyone should be riding single speed, no suspension, steel bikes with 2" tires that weigh 35 lbs.

Except you still need to pedal that heavier full suspension bike and fat bike up the hill on your own, don't you?

What about motorsports racing? Should dual clutch transmissions, which make changing gears easier/faster, be used? Only three pedal and shifter allowed (in your view)?

Sequential transmissions have been wide use in motorsport since the 80's. Making the cars go faster, handle better, stop harder puts increased loads on the body, requires increased fitness, and super-fast reaction times. If anything, its been made the sport more difficult. Modern F1 drivers need the fitness and reaction times of a fighter pilot to keep the car out of the tire wall.

 

[JimN]

That's not what @JimN says!

They definitely make it easier, which in turn makes it more fun. I guess that's also the argument for ebikes though 😛

 

[rick81721]

Except you still need to pedal that heavier full suspension bike and fat bike up the hill on your own, don't you?


Sequential transmissions have been wide use in motorsport since the 80's. Making the cars go faster, handle better, stop harder puts increased loads on the body, requires increased fitness, and super-fast reaction times. If anything, its been made the sport more difficult. Modern F1 drivers need the fitness and reaction times of a fighter pilot to keep the car out of the tire wall.

You have to pedal an ebike up the hill too. It's just easier. Same with a lighter, more gears bike.

 

[frug]

You have to pedal an ebike up the hill too. It's just easier.

Question for the ebikers in here in this situation. When you are climbing and encounter someone in front of you on a bike, do you ask to pass or how do you handle that? Asking for a friend.

 

[JimN]

When you are climbing and encounter someone in front of you on a bike, do you ask to pass or how do you handle that?

I would assume you handle it the same way you handle it if you were both on amish bikes.

 

[iLuveketchup]

Sequential transmissions have been wide use in motorsport since the 80's. Making the cars go faster, handle better, stop harder puts increased loads on the body, requires increased fitness, and super-fast reaction times. If anything, its been made the sport more difficult. Modern F1 drivers need the fitness and reaction times of a fighter pilot to keep the car out of the tire wall.

These transmissions make it easier versus manually rowing threw the gears. Again, since it is easier does it have a place?

Edit: I don't know how a transmission makes a car "handle better" or "stop harder", but "people do get creative" with their reasons. 🤣

 

[Bike N Gear]

What about motorsports racing? Should dual clutch transmissions, which make changing gears easier/faster, be used? Only three pedal and shifter allowed (in your view)?

 

[Kaleidopete]

Question for the ebikers in here in this situation. When you are climbing and encounter someone in front of you on a bike, do you ask to pass or how do you handle that? Asking for a friend.

Ha ha, I never catch up to anyone anywhere, so it doesn't apply here 🤪

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

These transmissions make it easier versus manually rowing threw the gears. Again, since it is easier does it have a place?

Edit: I don't know how a transmission makes a car "handle better" or "stop harder", but "people do get creative" with their reasons. 🤣

Its kind of going over your head, or you don't follow motorsports. Making the car faster doesn't make it easier to driven. Back in the days of manual transmissions, they also drank wine when they went in for pit stops, the cars were slower and so was the overall pace. You could argue that the sport has lost some of its charm along the way, but easier it has not become. We're talking about making things easier here, are we not? A sequential transmission doesn't make things easier, because it makes all the other parts of driving harder. Adding an electric motor to a bike makes climbing easier, period. Now the added weight of the bike may make handling and descending a little harder, but bike weights are coming down.

And as far as older folks go, its a valid point, but that's not who ebikes are being marketed too, and not who I see riding them 99% of the time.

 

[BPaze]

Its kind of going over your head, or you don't follow motorsports. Making the car faster doesn't make it easier to driven. Back in the days of manual transmissions, they also drank wine when they went in for pit stops, the cars were slower and so was the overall pace. You could argue that the sport has lost some of its charm along the way, but easier it has not become. We're talking about making things easier here, are we not? A sequential transmission doesn't make things easier, because it makes all the other parts of driving harder. Adding an electric motor to a bike makes climbing easier, period. Now the added weight of the bike may make handling and descending a little harder, but bike weights are coming down.

And as far as older folks go, its a valid point, but that's not who ebikes are being marketed too, and not who I see riding them 99% of the time.

So by this logic, cars go faster so it is harder and e-bikes can go faster uphill so it's harder no?

 

[iLuveketchup]

Its kind of going over your head, or you don't follow motorsports. Making the car faster doesn't make it easier to driven. Back in the days of manual transmissions, they also drank wine when they went in for pit stops, the cars were slower and so was the overall pace. You could argue that the sport has lost some of its charm along the way, but easier it has not become. We're talking about making things easier here, are we not? A sequential transmission doesn't make things easier, because it makes all the other parts of driving harder. Adding an electric motor to a bike makes climbing easier, period. Now the added weight of the bike may make handling and descending a little harder, but bike weights are coming down.

And as far as older folks go, its a valid point, but that's not who ebikes are being marketed too, and not who I see riding them 99% of the time.

LOL at not following motorsports. I don't know need your history lesson. Just look at when Senna and Prost were racing turbo manual F1 cars. But this is besides the point.

Motorsports racing is about traveling a given distance in the shortest amount of time. Modern transmissions makes it easier to do that. Again, does racing with a modern transmission have a place?

 

[iLuveketchup]

Horses for courses.

I have an emtb. It's not neat nor cool, just ok. No where near as fun as my other bike, but there are times when I'm lazy and I want to take it out. Happens more often than not. Really happens when I'm feeling creative.

 

[Ian F]

Question for the ebikers in here in this situation. When you are climbing and encounter someone in front of you on a bike, do you ask to pass or how do you handle that? Asking for a friend.

Not an ebiker, but I ride with one often and she is usually the only one in our group on an ebike. She usually has the bike in eco mode so she can ride with us without making her knees hurt more than they usually do. On some steeper climbs, she has discovered the bike won't really climb for her in eco mode, so she has to bump it to trail mode. On those climbs we let her go first since there is pretty much a minimum speed she has to go, which is usually faster than any of us on regular bikes, except for a few who are exceptionally strong climbers. She has always been a stronger descender, so she is usually towards the front on those parts of the trails, although she is still trying to get used to the fact that she can't move her 50 lbs bike (SC Heckler) around as easily as her other bikes. It's been a challenge to convince her the bike needs bigger and heavier tires than she normally runs (she's always been a bit of a weight-weenie).

 

[mattybfat]

Question for the ebikers in here in this situation. When you are climbing and encounter someone in front of you on a bike, do you ask to pass or how do you handle that? Asking for a friend.

I've had this happen a few times and handle it just like I would any other time I was on a pedal bike. Just let the rider know there is no pressure and just keep it rolling. I get the idea that most think emtbers are dicks, speaking for myself I am not and would imagine the same for most.

I give credit to @Captain Brainstorm and @Monkey Soup for participating from the beginning of this thread with an opposing view.
Keeping it cordial and debating. The theme is you need to be broken to apply is one of the main factors for me as much as I hate to admit it. 30+ years in this sport and 2 bad knees from working construction has brought me here. Thank God for a little assistance because last time I rode my pedal bike my left knee blew up like a pumpkin.
I'm too old yet too young to retire with 2 kids in school to have my knees opened up and miss time from working. As hard as I pushed my ebike I haven't had an issue with either of my knees. Pretty sure between construction and SSing only for past 12 years pushed them to a limit of no return. Again as I said before I'm riding stuff I never would have before and having more fun doing it, and that's really what it's all about.

 

[JerseyPete]

As hard as I pushed my ebike I haven't had an issue with either of my knees.

For me, this is one of the most significant things I have read in this thread. Physical well being and the ability to get back out in the woods without pain are probably the most convincing arguments.