Would a place like Ray's MTB in Ohio do well in NJ?
- Thread starter goodvibe
- Start date
Droptopchevy
Member
There was actually an article in one of the biking magazines (perhaps bike magazine) recently that talked about a mountain biker that won the lottery, bought a bunch of bikes, and built a freeride-ish bike park in the area he lived in. If I played the lottery it would be on my list of things to do. Buy one of those 2000 foot long warehouse you see on the side of the NJ Turnpike, a bunch of dirt, and 2x4's and go crazy. Howard Hughes crazy.
is there a legal place where i can buy carrot pants? i guess a carrot would only need a pant though.
I think between the Laywer's and the insurance companies this is just a pipe dream which is a damn shame.
🙁
sixseven
New Member
Norm is right on this one. Finding insurance is not the biggest issue here.
Ski resorts exist in NJ, Diablo exists in NJ. Shit even Traction Park existed in NJ. Your average mall parking lot in NJ is more of a liability than anything an indoor bike park would be.
If getting insurance was the problem, the state would have the same problem and none of the trails open to us would be open. The premium might be higher than it would be in another state but that is probably not as substantial as the real estate cost of doing business in NJ.
Ski resorts exist in NJ, Diablo exists in NJ. Shit even Traction Park existed in NJ. Your average mall parking lot in NJ is more of a liability than anything an indoor bike park would be.
If getting insurance was the problem, the state would have the same problem and none of the trails open to us would be open. The premium might be higher than it would be in another state but that is probably not as substantial as the real estate cost of doing business in NJ.
dhsean
Member
NJ is too Expensive
I think everybody overlooked the biggest issue. NJ is crazy expensive for anything and everything. If you have ever been to Ray's in the bombed out section of Cleveland you know his start-up costs were low.
Hell, I think I probably pay more for my house than the lease for the park's warehouse space. I'm not a business man but I do stay at Holiday Inn when I goto Ray's. I'll be there this weekend. I'll ask Ray about his startup cost's and cost of operation if I see him.
Dammit, when did that post appear - what he said. 🙄
I think everybody overlooked the biggest issue. NJ is crazy expensive for anything and everything. If you have ever been to Ray's in the bombed out section of Cleveland you know his start-up costs were low.
Hell, I think I probably pay more for my house than the lease for the park's warehouse space. I'm not a business man but I do stay at Holiday Inn when I goto Ray's. I'll be there this weekend. I'll ask Ray about his startup cost's and cost of operation if I see him.
Dammit, when did that post appear - what he said. 🙄
goodvibe
Well-Known Member
I would just figure that with the poor economy and people looking to unload real estate, someone with some funds would be able to make this work here. There is so much vacant real estate, that this would be awesome here.
How about the Xanadu site at the Meadowlands? It is not like that is going to open anytime soon. 🙂
How about the Xanadu site at the Meadowlands? It is not like that is going to open anytime soon. 🙂
sixseven
New Member
I think Xanadu is opening as a douche trap, in 2020. Maybe.
sixseven
New Member
Yeah, probably every month too. See ya out there this weekend. Look for me...Yellow Magna Ninja, mullet, no helmet.
yes, but the skateparks are municipal property in the end and if I am not mistaken (very possible) these parks get covered under the municipalities insurance the same a baseball or soccer field would. So for a muni to add a rider for a skatepark, the premium goes up a small amount when you factor in the 15 baseball and 15 soccer fields that are on the policy also, not to mention that the policy also covers every inch of municipal owned property. When you get in the private game, you open up a fresh policy for a high-risk activity, which equals a huge premium. Insurance is the things that killed pretty much any private park that I have been too that wasn't very well established (hacketstown, lakewood), oh and also considering the kid working the door lets 3/4 of the people in for free doesn't help either.
don
Well-Known Member
Yup. If Lakewood can get insurance, I'm sure a Ray's like place in NJ could as well. Incline Club is a freaking circus on a raining winter day.
Like I was saying in that other thread, even that place near Allaire at $3.99 a SF, the rate is still much higher in NJ. My guess it would be at least $500k for the first year's rent and to cover start up costs like insurance and building material. And that wouldn't even be the same size as the current Ray's.
IIRC, Ray was in the construction business and was able to get a lot of material at a very smart price. Plus he worked his a$$ off to build the place. I remember the first time going there in '05 (maybe '06) and he was just swinging a hammer the whole time. So dollar amount was low but the sweat invested was really high.
Like stb222 said, long term private skateparks in NJ are rare - just Hackenstown, Lakewood, & Shields - and I don't think it has been easy for any of them. Plus all those places allow skaters. NJ's weather isn't as bad as OH and there is more for us to do in the winter. So, an indoor mtn bike only place in NJ might be busy 3 months max.
Also at the lower rent in OH, Ray's can close in the spring and summer and make updates. In NJ - you'd want to keep it open all year to cover the rent costs. The thing is you can't make the changes that keeps Ray's growing every year. The 1st year of Ray's wasn't anything that rad to ride - it's the growth of that place that has made it so successful.
Not saying it's not possible. But it would take a crapload of money and work to get it running and keep it running. I'd love to see it happen.
even though cost per square foot is insane out here climbing gyms manage to make it, i'm sure they are along the same lines to start up - lots wood and hardware and upfront insurance costs. they are usually in beat up warehouses or spaces that are in not-so-nice areas, at least when they start, but they do eventually end up moving (the NJ rock gym used to be in wayne for example, the area was obviously was fine, but the space leaved a little to be desired).
one could probably pick the brain of a climbing gym owner/operator for ideas how they started up out here.
now would be a great time to look into it too - there are lots of vacant commercial spaces since the economy has bitten the big one.
one could probably pick the brain of a climbing gym owner/operator for ideas how they started up out here.
now would be a great time to look into it too - there are lots of vacant commercial spaces since the economy has bitten the big one.
I don't think the insurance would be any higher than a place like Diablo. If they can get it done here, than an indoor park should be able to. Pick an undesireable neighberhood and you may be able to get the building cheaper and pad the floors for the liability insurance 😀
kush
Active Member
if you have 50 people per day on weekdays, and 100 people per day on weekends, the most you can GROSS is like $470,000 per year. That is if you're open every single day of the year, and if you collect $20 from every single person. Though I have no idea of the volume, but you get the idea. There's no money in this. You'd be doing it for love. Though whoever goes to Rays, let me know what kind of car he drives, I could be wrong.
Droptopchevy
Member
There still is the idea of sponsors, rentals, merchandise, etc. I couldn't imagine an indoor park without those.
