Tariffs...what to make of them.

Dave Taylor said:
I thought TDS initially referred to the lefties but for sure it’s for sure the Trump Derangement Syndrome is infecting all of his followers.
Click to expand...
Fun fact: TDS originally started out are Trump D*ck Sucker. Then the sheepeople spun it into Trump Derangement Syndrome. At one point people were replying with TSS, Trump Sucker Syndrome. This was all over the Place Washington Post forum…IMG_9621.jpeg
 
Santapez said:
Can you point me to more info on how they've been taking money since the Reagan administration?

Not saying it's not true, but best I can find is that SS funds are invested in treasuries.
Click to expand...
I listen to a podcast called Freakonmics, according to Jessica Riedl, it's not true. She explains that SS is now simply outspending it's yearly income by a great deal. The idea was current payrolls would fund payments today and sometime in the future. Apparently that was true when it started, because nobody was getting the payments yet.

Her suggestion is some overhaul of the system, ie. payments later in age, but also, no payments to people over a certain income. According to her, it was a plan for the poor, not the wealthy. It was America's safety net for the older population. She argues, that anybody making a million a year doesn't need SS. I find it hard to disagree. However, you know that will rub a lot of people the wrong way. Interestingly, she also states that the middle class should pay more taxes. She says the rich pay more than their fair share. She works for a right of center think tank out of D.C. I think she had some very valid points.
 
roc said:
I listen to a podcast called Freakonmics, according to Jessica Riedl, it's not true. She explains that SS is now simply outspending it's yearly income by a great deal. The idea was current payrolls would fund payments today and sometime in the future. Apparently that was true when it started, because nobody was getting the payments yet.

Her suggestion is some overhaul of the system, ie. payments later in age, but also, no payments to people over a certain income. According to her, it was a plan for the poor, not the wealthy. It was America's safety net for the older population. She argues, that anybody making a million a year doesn't need SS. I find it hard to disagree. However, you know that will rub a lot of people the wrong way. Interestingly, she also states that the middle class should pay more taxes. She says the rich pay more than their fair share. She works for a right of center think tank out of D.C. I think she had some very valid points.
Click to expand...

So, if you made millions a year, paid millions in, you don't get you r 4k/month?
And that is only after 67yo, otherwise they take it all back.

It's called actuarial science cause it isn't as easy as everyone makes it out.

How about as a business owner with high earners, we pay in well after the personal limit. I think a donut hole might be a good idea here.

Edited to strike out errors.
 
Last edited:
roc said:
I listen to a podcast called Freakonmics, according to Jessica Riedl, it's not true. She explains that SS is now simply outspending it's yearly income by a great deal. The idea was current payrolls would fund payments today and sometime in the future. Apparently that was true when it started, because nobody was getting the payments yet.

Her suggestion is some overhaul of the system, ie. payments later in age, but also, no payments to people over a certain income. According to her, it was a plan for the poor, not the wealthy. It was America's safety net for the older population. She argues, that anybody making a million a year doesn't need SS. I find it hard to disagree. However, you know that will rub a lot of people the wrong way. Interestingly, she also states that the middle class should pay more taxes. She says the rich pay more than their fair share. She works for a right of center think tank out of D.C. I think she had some very valid points.
Click to expand...

This is interesting. In particular because it directly affects me and was just turned up to 11. I wasn't going to get full SS until 1/5/2025 changed that. At least for now.


The Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) was a US law that could reduce Social Security benefits for individuals who also received a pension from a job that didn't require them to pay Social Security taxes, but it has been repealed by the Social Security Fairness Act, signed into law on January 5, 2025.

Here's a more detailed explanation:
  • What it was:
    The WEP was a formula used to adjust Social Security benefits for people who received "non-covered pensions" (pensions from jobs where Social Security taxes weren't paid) and also qualified for Social Security benefits based on other Social Security-covered earnings.

    • Why it was created:
      The WEP was intended to prevent workers from receiving higher Social Security benefits than they would have if they had only worked in jobs covered by Social Security.
    • Who it affected:
      The WEP primarily affected individuals who worked in jobs where they didn't pay Social Security taxes (like some state, local, or federal government employees) and also worked in jobs that did contribute to Social Security.
    • How it worked:
      The WEP reduced Social Security benefits by a certain amount, based on the amount of the non-covered pension.
    • Social Security Fairness Act:
      The Social Security Fairness Act, signed into law on January 5, 2025, repealed the WEP and the Government Pension Offset (GPO), another provision that reduced Social Security benefits for certain individuals.
    • Impact of the repeal:
      The repeal of the WEP and GPO means that individuals who were previously affected by these provisions will no longer have their Social Security benefits reduced, and some may see an increase in their benefits.
    • Retroactive payments:
      The Social Security Administration (SSA) is working on implementing the new law, and it is expected that many individuals will receive retroactive payments for benefits that were previously reduced by the WEP and GPO.
 
Patrick said:
So, if you made millions a year, paid millions in, you don't get you r 4k/month?


How about as a business owner with high earners, we pay in well after the personal limit. I think a donut hole might be a good idea here.
Click to expand...
I get it, I paid in for the last 39 years also, and I'd like to get my cash also. I have no answers. I'm fine with your donut hole!
 
Patrick said:
So, if you made millions a year, paid millions in, you don't get you r 4k/month?
And that is only after 67yo, otherwise they take it all back.

It's called actuarial science cause it isn't as easy as everyone makes it out.

How about as a business owner with high earners, we pay in well after the personal limit. I think a donut hole might be a good idea here.
Click to expand...
Do employers really pay tax above the cap? I couldn't find any info to support that. Also, I can't see how anyone pays "millions" into SS when the max is $11k/year.
 
roc said:
I listen to a podcast called Freakonmics, according to Jessica Riedl, it's not true. She explains that SS is now simply outspending it's yearly income by a great deal. The idea was current payrolls would fund payments today and sometime in the future. Apparently that was true when it started, because nobody was getting the payments yet.

Her suggestion is some overhaul of the system, ie. payments later in age, but also, no payments to people over a certain income. According to her, it was a plan for the poor, not the wealthy. It was America's safety net for the older population. She argues, that anybody making a million a year doesn't need SS. I find it hard to disagree. However, you know that will rub a lot of people the wrong way. Interestingly, she also states that the middle class should pay more taxes. She says the rich pay more than their fair share. She works for a right of center think tank out of D.C. I think she had some very valid points.
Click to expand...
Funny you say that because I used to listen to that Podcast but haven't in awhile. @UtahJoe said that last episode was good so I listened to it over the weekend. I was actually going to update with the points you had the the issue is it was paying out for people who didn't pay in.

I have heard that one of the biggest ways to just fix it is to make it more progressive and just keep the cap on what you can take out but remove the cap on what you pay in. Even changing the % to half once you hit the cap would probably bring in a lot more money.

SmooveP said:
Do employers really pay tax above the cap? I couldn't find any info to support that. Also, I can't see how anyone pays "millions" into SS when the max is $11k/year.
Click to expand...

I don't have info but very sure that when the cap is hit both the Employer and Employee stop paying in. What most people don't see on the paycheck is the employer matching the SS withholdings.
 
roc said:
I listen to a podcast called Freakonmics, according to Jessica Riedl, it's not true. She explains that SS is now simply outspending it's yearly income by a great deal. The idea was current payrolls would fund payments today and sometime in the future. Apparently that was true when it started, because nobody was getting the payments yet.

Her suggestion is some overhaul of the system, ie. payments later in age, but also, no payments to people over a certain income. According to her, it was a plan for the poor, not the wealthy. It was America's safety net for the older population. She argues, that anybody making a million a year doesn't need SS. I find it hard to disagree. However, you know that will rub a lot of people the wrong way. Interestingly, she also states that the middle class should pay more taxes. She says the rich pay more than their fair share. She works for a right of center think tank out of D.C. I think she had some very valid points.
Click to expand...
I think the biggest thing I took away from listening to that podcast....There are ways the system can be fixed...but its in neither parties best interest to do so. Kinda made me think about @Norm s point about single term limits.....Maybe they would be more inclined to make a tough decision if they were't so worried about getting reelected.

And I do agree that on paper, the rich are paying their fair share as a percentage...compared to other countries...this is all true.....However...comparing the US with other countries in terms of what we get for our tax money...little different. We get no healthcare, or college education....but we do get almost 4 times as many aircraft carriers as the #2 country on the list. 🙂
 
  • Like
Reactions: don
SmooveP said:
Do employers really pay tax above the cap? I couldn't find any info to support that. Also, I can't see how anyone pays "millions" into SS when the max is $11k/year.
Click to expand...

I think I fumbled here - damn. Seems I remember my payroll tax report including SS for those over the cap.
Thanks for the call-out.

So it probably isn't millions paid in - and since it was like $40k and 4% in 198x, it probably didn't reach $1mm - even using the FV of the stream at 5%.

I haven't had a real paycheck in 10 years, nor have done payroll for employees - SSA account says i've paid in $120,000 - so double it. $240,000

--------------------------------

so the question is, did I finance myself, or is it more ponzi where i've been paying for the current collectors and have to hope more people pay into it in the future?
 
UtahJoe said:
And I do agree that on paper, the rich are paying their fair share as a percentage...compared to other countries...this is all true.....However...comparing the US with other countries in terms of what we get for our tax money...little different. We get no healthcare, or college education
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing about healthcare and college. Although, I know in Switzerland and Germany, college is not really required to get a really good job. it's really for the most part professionals, Docs, Lawyers, Engineers. That kind of thing.

She sounded like she know what she was talking about, and really didn't give into partisanship. With hearing hr discuss it, nothing will ever get fixed in DC!
 
Patrick said:
I think I fumbled here - damn. Seems I remember my payroll tax report including SS for those over the cap.
Thanks for the call-out.

So it probably isn't millions paid in - and since it was like $40k and 4% in 198x, it probably didn't reach $1mm - even using the FV of the stream at 5%.

I haven't had a real paycheck in 10 years, nor have done payroll for employees - SSA account says i've paid in $120,000 - so double it. $240,000

--------------------------------

so the question is, did I finance myself, or is it more ponzi where i've been paying for the current collectors and have to hope more people pay into it in the future?
Click to expand...
Well, according to the economist that was referenced, it's more Ponzi scheme than I realized because there was a lot of people that never paid into it and got paid out. Which makes sense as it got started with minimal payroll taxes but yet people getting paid out without really paying in.

roc said:
I was thinking the same thing about healthcare and college. Although, I know in Switzerland and Germany, college is not really required to get a really good job. it's really for the most part professionals, Docs, Lawyers, Engineers. That kind of thing.

She sounded like she know what she was talking about, and really didn't give into partisanship. With hearing hr discuss it, nothing will ever get fixed in DC!
Click to expand...
I was actually looking her up because I'd love to hear a longer form interview with her. Both on the back-end view of the economics/politics but also her professional life which was also interesting.
 
SmooveP said:
I disagree. USAID is involved in a lot of stuff and most Americans probably have no idea what they do. Here are a few points to consider:

1) They're mainly involved in humanitarian efforts.
2) Their annual budget is around $40bn, which is .7% of the fed budget.
3) Some people think that military and economic "sticks" are our only tools for influencing foreign countries, but USAID, along with diplomacy, are key elements of "soft power". Things like dealing with problems over there before they become problems over here.
4) There are multiple levels of oversight and strings attached to the aid we send, both before and after we send it.

A big chunk of the aid has gone to Ukraine in the past few years for obvious reasons. We do this both because they're an ally of the US and because we have strategic interests in the region.

This is a fairly easy read: https://www.cfr.org/article/what-usaid-and-why-it-risk
Click to expand...
Another item is containing disease outbreaks, like Marburg and Ebola, or even malaria and antibiotic resistant TB. In a fully global world, it would not take much for those diseases to spread unchecked (as we experienced in 2020). While I don't think anyone with Ebola could survive long enough for a flight to the US, there are many other less deadly tropical diseases we don't want here. Antibiotic resistant TB would be a killer.
 
Patrick said:
I think I fumbled here - damn. Seems I remember my payroll tax report including SS for those over the cap.
Thanks for the call-out.

So it probably isn't millions paid in - and since it was like $40k and 4% in 198x, it probably didn't reach $1mm - even using the FV of the stream at 5%.

I haven't had a real paycheck in 10 years, nor have done payroll for employees - SSA account says i've paid in $120,000 - so double it. $240,000

--------------------------------

so the question is, did I finance myself, or is it more ponzi where i've been paying for the current collectors and have to hope more people pay into it in the future?
Click to expand...
I hesitate to call it a Ponzi scheme because I don't want to echo talking points of certain people. There's also no bad actor at the top of the pyramid getting rich off it. It's a decent program that basically needs to make some adjustments based on actuarial data. They should make it automatically adjust periodically as life expectancy goes up/down. Codify it in the law one time, so it doesn't have to be a political football every time there's an adjustment.
 
Pearl said:
View attachment 256771
DAY ONE I WILL END THE WAR IN UKRAINE

DAY ONE
Click to expand...
Hey...so at only 1392 hours later....He had a call with Putin yesterday.....Putin agreed to a temp ceasefire on Ukraine's energy infrastructure....Few hours later Ukraine's air force reported a total of six missiles and 145 drones fired into the country overnight.....from which a hospital in Sumy was hit. Ukraine also hit an oil deport in Krasnodar Krai (Russia) with a drone. So hey, its going swimmingly!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom