Tariffs...what to make of them.

[rjr44]

I heard a very nice explanation of what DEI means, and I semi-successfully used it on my dad. DEI doesn't just "give jobs to minorities" regardless of their qualifications. Imagine there are many people out there who are amazing at sprinting, all colors, genders, etc. They train and practice and have amazing physical abilities. One day they announce a race, and they call everyone to the starting line to see who really is the best sprinter. DEI just makes sure that all these people get to be at the STARTING LINE. It doesn't mean they will automatically win the race. Otherwise, its just a bunch of non-minorities racing and we may not actually get the best one.

And for those who want the most capable people doing jobs - that's all anyone wants. Therefore, the current state of our government is a catastrophe.

Yes this is the definition and intent. Where things go wrong is in the wrongful application of it.

I've worked w/ corporate leadership that mis-applied this and literally would only interview and hire non-white males for the openings. In previous companies, I was told I couldn't hire a white male because we had a quota to make. (edit: I originally typed in previous "roles", didn't mean at my current employer, fixed to previous "companies")

DEI by itself is not an issue, it's a tool, a set of guidance, giving equal opportunity and consideration to all who are qualified. It's the wrongful application of it where things get off the rails.

It really can apply to just about anything in life, there is the intent, and then there is how it is put into practice. They don't always align.

I want to be the fastest down the mountain on my bike is a, while maybe unrealistic and over-reaching goal, nonetheless something I work torwards. Removing the brakes from my bike is probably not how the end state is intended to be reached.

 

[OddTrickStar]

So what is Dumbo asking Canada to do? Stop the snowmen from invading?

So we've come to an agreement where Mexico puts 10,000 people at a wall that has been designed to keep those exact people out? Asking for a friend.

Next we will contract out illegals to stand guard around farm fields ensuring that illegals do not pick any fruit.

This is why people can’t have reasonable conversations. Somebody always says something ridiculous like invading snowmen or some other nonsense or insults. Same thing as Mexico, illegals and drugs coming across the border.

Tell your friend the wall/ border isn’t for keeping out 10,000 members of the Mexican military. If Mexico’s soldiers are so compromised that it’s comparable to the fox guarding the henhouse then that will become very apparent very soon.

We have a serious drug and human trafficking problem at the border. While the BP is busy being distracted processing “asylum” seekers, the worst of the worst are/ were coming in easily. I’m not ignoring that and if tariffs or threats of tariffs helps advance the conversation and bring about a solution, I’m all for it.

 

[SmooveP]

I was under the impression that Canada already had tariffs on many of our exports to them; autos, metals, consumer goods, dairy etc. Problem is I can’t seem to get anything in search results, search engines seem to only bring in “retaliatory tariffs” stories from the last day or so, no matter how I word my search. Anywho, Mexico has already caved. Canada will too after they talk later.

View attachment 254928

The USMCA agreement that replaced NAFTA eliminated almost all tariffs among the 3 countries. Trump signed it into law during his first term.

 

[Norm]

This is why people can’t have reasonable conversations. Somebody always says something ridiculous like invading snowmen or some other nonsense or insults.

Yes yes fine, you're right. Sorry.

 

[UtahJoe]

This is why people can’t have reasonable conversations. Somebody always says something ridiculous like invading snowmen or some other nonsense or insults. Same thing as Mexico, illegals and drugs coming across the border.

Tell your friend the wall/ border isn’t for keeping out 10,000 members of the Mexican military. If Mexico’s soldiers are so compromised that it’s comparable to the fox guarding the henhouse then that will become very apparent very soon.

We have a serious drug and human trafficking problem at the border. While the BP is busy being distracted processing “asylum” seekers, the worst of the worst are/ were coming in easily. I’m not ignoring that and if tariffs or threats of tariffs helps advance the conversation and bring about a solution, I’m all for it.

Im happy that this stupid tarriff has been thus far postponed...however.....my issue with Trump and Elon is just that the headline is all that matters. The details are usually left out. Fine it happened this morning, we'll probably find out eventually....but are we paying Mexico to put these 10,000 troops there? bc in that case, I might feel a little differently about it.

But in his speech the other day, Trump is going on about how Tarriffs pre 1913 were the greatest thing since sliced bread...we took in more money then ever.....they are great, wonderful, etc.....we going to go back to model and get rid of income tax....(I lol'd at that one again as I wrote it) but yet, he will toss his plans in the garbage for 10,000 mexican troops that he will have no control over.

I mean whatever, our government is now the equivalent of doom scrolling on IG. Who knows whats in the next reel.

 

[UtahJoe]

and this happened back in 2019....except mexico sent 15,000.....That obviously stopped the border crossings

https://www.reuters.com/article/world/mexico-says-it-has-deployed-15000-forces-in-the-north-to-halt-us-bound-migrat-idUSKCN1TP2YD/

So did they reduce the force from 15K to 10K? Or are the adding 10k more? Details and shit....lol.

 

[SmooveP]

Im happy that this stupid tarriff has been thus far postponed...however.....my issue with Trump and Elon is just that the headline is all that matters. The details are usually left out. Fine it happened this morning, we'll probably find out eventually....but are we paying Mexico to put these 10,000 troops there? bc in that case, I might feel a little differently about it.

But in his speech the other day, Trump is going on about how Tarriffs pre 1913 were the greatest thing since sliced bread...we took in more money then ever.....they are great, wonderful, etc.....we going to go back to model and get rid of income tax....(I lol'd at that one again as I wrote it) but yet, he will toss his plans in the garbage for 10,000 mexican troops that he will have no control over.

I mean whatever, our government is now the equivalent of doom scrolling on IG. Who knows whats in the next reel.

Yep, prior to 1913, 90% of federal govt revenue came from tariffs. There are a few issues with trying to get back to that number. If the goal of tariffs is to bring manufacturing back to the US and make our economy self-contained, imports are eliminated/reduced and tariff revenue disappears if that goal is achieved. Trump put big tariffs on imported steel during his first term. Steel jobs have not returned to the US. Trump loves the word "tariff" because it's not "tax", even though tariffs are effectively a tax. That said, the Biden administration left in place the tariffs that Trump put in place. It's hard to give up a revenue stream, I guess.

 

[JPark]

Yep, prior to 1913, 90% of federal govt revenue came from tariffs. There are a few issues with trying to get back to that number. If the goal of tariffs is to bring manufacturing back to the US and make our economy self-contained, imports are eliminated/reduced and tariff revenue disappears if that goal is achieved. Trump put big tariffs on imported steel during his first term. Steel jobs have not returned to the US. Trump loves the word "tariff" because it's not "tax", even though tariffs are effectively a tax. That said, the Biden administration left in place the tariffs that Trump put in place. It's hard to give up a revenue stream, I guess.

I guess it's no coincidence that 1913 is the year when the federal income tax started.

 

[OddTrickStar]

That’s the rub for me. Government loves to waste money but it’s real money they’re wasting. Somebody has to earn it to pay it and we’re spending more than we take in. So we’re also mortgaging the future generations to waste their money they haven’t even earned yet. Instead of being able to collectively call them out, we’re getting pigeon holed into groups and being pitted against each other. Cloward-Piven strategy, enhanced version.

The details do matter for sure and our tax code is as out of control as our spending. Nobody understands the whole thing, by design.

I’m intrigued by the external revenue service idea and pretty geeked to see what waste and fraud is exposed by DOGE. We all have skin in the game and probably want our taxes lowered. If tariffs shift taxes to what we import and consume instead of what we earn, I’m hip to that. If tariffs encourage more production in the US, I’m hip to that too.

 

[SmooveP]

I guess it's no coincidence that 1913 is the year when the federal income tax started.

Correct. They had just heavily reduced tariffs and needed to replace the revenue. This was thought to be a fairer way to pay for the govt as it would shift more of the burden to high earning people.

 

[Red Mosquito]

Plot twist

Administration officials did not say how the fund would operate or be financed, but Trump has previously said it could be funded by "tariffs and other intelligent things."

https://www.reuters.com/markets/wealth/trump-signs-executive-order-create-sovereign-wealth-fund-2025-02-03/

 

[dvaidya]

I usually stay out of this type of discussion, but I am hoping someone can clarify something for me:

• 25% tariff with Mexico is postponed for one month after Mexico agreed to deploying 10k soldier at the border

Once they are deployed what's next? Does Mexico still get 25% tariff after one month or they are exempt from tariff once they show 10k soldiers are deployed?

How are we measuring success that by Mexico deploying soldiers at the border the drug traffic and border crossing is under control.

Same question related to Canada which also seems to have gotten a one month delay by promising increased border security.

Edit: I do not trust either party and no way in hell am I relying on them to do the right thing.

 

[John the Plumber]

I have been reading a lot of the discussion. I don't know if any of you that responded are Libertarians but this is an overreach by trump and musk government to get all the information of you on the non department of doge. Also if you believe in free markets, tariffs are not fair an equitable bc they raise the cost of living for the middle class (inflation).
It seems like everyone is conflating 3 ideas into one. Now on taxes the last time we had a balanced budget was Clinton which had a 39.5% for the top earners which we know through our tax code nobody every paid that amount. Also the corporate tax then about 37.5%. Now the last time in NJ we had a balanced budget was Gov. Florio was in. The people got at a 7% sales tax.

 

[OddTrickStar]

I have been reading a lot of the discussion. I don't know if any of you that responded are Libertarians but this is an overreach by trump and musk government to get all the information of you on the non department of doge. Also if you believe in free markets, tariffs are not fair an equitable bc they raise the cost of living for the middle class (inflation).
It seems like everyone is conflating 3 ideas into one. Now on taxes the last time we had a balanced budget was Clinton which had a 39.5% for the top earners which we know through our tax code nobody ever paid that amount. Also the corporate tax then about 37.5%. Now the last time in NJ we had a balanced budget was Gov. Florio was in. The people got at a 7% sales tax.

The balanced budget during the Clinton administration was with a Republican congress, Newt Gingrich led the congress with the contract to America or whatever it was called. They had to work together, congress had control of the purse strings but Clinton seems to be the only one who gets credit mentioned.

Just curious and I’m not trying to be confrontational but why is President Trump’s and Musk’s the only proper names in your post not capitalized. I see this a lot online and always wonder if it’s a mistake or intentional disrespect.

Of all the millions and millions of unelected bureaucrats and workers in our government with access to our info, I find it peculiar to balk at Elon being involved.

Oddly, my dad was friends was Jim Florio. I remember a positive conversation they had about Trump running for president decades ago. I’m not convinced that I’m not living in a simulation.

 

[John the Plumber]

The balanced budget during the Clinton administration was with a Republican congress, Newt Gingrich led the congress with the contract to America or whatever it was called. They had to work together, congress had control of the purse strings but Clinton seems to be the only one who gets credit mentioned.

Just curious and I’m not trying to be confrontational but why is President Trump’s and Musk’s the only proper names in your post not capitalized. I see this a lot online and always wonder if it’s a mistake or intentional disrespect.

Of all the millions and millions of unelected bureaucrats and workers in our government with access to our info, I find it peculiar to balk at Elon being involved.

Oddly, my dad was friends was Jim Florio. I remember a positive conversation they had about Trump running for president decades ago. I’m not convinced that I’m not living in a simulation.

No respect for trump. One reason he didn’t pay the contractor I was working for which bc trump didn’t live up to the contract he signed. Which in turn hurt my contractor to get behind 6 months on benefits. Which almost put him out of business. This was the time he built the taj in AC. musk wasn’t elected to represent America he is no friend of us. Also he has a lot of government contracts so I see this as a conflict of interest.

 

[Norm]

The balanced budget during the Clinton administration was with a Republican congress, Newt Gingrich led the congress with the contract to America or whatever it was called. They had to work together, congress had control of the purse strings but Clinton seems to be the only one who gets credit mentioned.

Regardless of what side you're on here, it is wild to me to say out loud that Clinton & Gingrich working together was the last time we had a balanced budget.

 

[Red Mosquito]

I usually stay out of this type of discussion, but I am hoping someone can clarify something for me:

• 25% tariff with Mexico is postponed for one month after Mexico agreed to deploying 10k soldier at the border

Once they are deployed what's next? Does Mexico still get 25% tariff after one month or they are exempt from tariff once they show 10k soldiers are deployed?

How are we measuring success that by Mexico deploying soldiers at the border the drug traffic and border crossing is under control.

Same question related to Canada which also seems to have gotten a one month delay by promising increased border security.

Edit: I do not trust either party and no way in hell am I relying on them to do the right thing.

I don’t think it really matters to him. It’s all about the perception. It looks like Mexico backed down so it’s a win for Trump. As we’ve seen countless times, it doesn’t matter if any of his messaging is true. He just needs to put it out there and let the alternative facts gain momentum. Things then get repeated so many times that they become truth. In the end, he just needs to think he's correct.

Just curious and I’m not trying to be confrontational but why is President Trump’s and Musk’s the only proper names in your post not capitalized. I see this a lot online and always wonder if it’s a mistake or intentional disrespect.

He has proven he has no respect for anyone (not sure it's even necessary to provide examples anymore), thus he does not deserve respect in return.

 

[Red Mosquito]

Case closed? Or maybe not. Tomorrow is another day, full of endless possibilities.

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/03/nx-s1-5285334/mexico-us-canada-tariffs-trump-sheinbaum

 

[UtahJoe]

I dont mind the added border security, and less drugs getting into the country....great.....But the bullshit dog and pony show...Its a little rough.

The mexican deal, 10,000 more troops....As I posted earlier...in 2018, Trump threaten mexico with Tariffs and the put 15,000 troops on the border. This was after Trump built the greatest wall in the history of great walls....Crossings had risen to over 130,000 in may 2019....there was a dip, then covid, then it was thru the roof by the fall of 2020. So did any of that actually accomplish anything? I have no idea. 15,000 troops to the border sounds good tho....now 10,000.
Looks like border crossings fell off a cliff last year...and if I recall, Biden/Harris' border deal got shelved. But as I have read, Mexico was cracking down on people transiting the country.

Encounters with migrants at the U.S.-Mexico border peaked in December 2023 but have plummeted since then

www.pewresearch.org

Whats the point? We spent the last few days listening to all of this hype for nothing....Nothing of any significance is actually happening.

With regards to Canada....The 1.3 billion they are adding in border security...they were already doing that. December last year they announced this

The Government of Canada’s Border Plan: significant investments to strengthen border security and our immigration system - Canada.ca

Canada is investing $1.3 billion to bolster security at the border and strengthen the immigration system, all while keeping Canadians safe.

www.canada.ca

Meantime Canada cancels Elon's $100 million dollar star link deal....suddenly, we don't need Canadian Tarriffs anymore. hmmm

God this is such a pile of steaming horseshit.....Lie to me better Government.

Everyone and their mother knew this Tarriffs were a bad idea, Trump just needed an off ramp to make the Maga dopes happy.

Tomorrow China is going to agree to make Trump lord of the tick-tok and he'll cancel their Tarriffs next.

 

[UtahJoe]

.
Yep, prior to 1913, 90% of federal govt revenue came from tariffs. There are a few issues with trying to get back to that number. If the goal of tariffs is to bring manufacturing back to the US and make our economy self-contained, imports are eliminated/reduced and tariff revenue disappears if that goal is achieved. Trump put big tariffs on imported steel during his first term. Steel jobs have not returned to the US. Trump loves the word "tariff" because it's not "tax", even though tariffs are effectively a tax. That said, the Biden administration left in place the tariffs that Trump put in place. It's hard to give up a revenue stream, I guess.

Well more like prior to ~1890....by 1903 when we were funding the Panama Canal, about have of the revenue came from alcohol and tobacco taxes......But in 1890...This time Trump longs for when McKinley installed all of these huge Tarriffs.....what happened? Inflation went nuts, prices went up, republicans took a huge hit in the next election.

I mean I can't believe he would be dumb enough to think we could ever replace income tax with Tarriffs now....he has said it many times in the past few months, but im assuming he's just winding up the Maga people. I mean simple mathing...we took in 2.2 Trillion in income taxes....at best in the past few years we have taken in about 100 billion in Tarriffs. We're not getting to 2.2 Trillion even if they put tarriffs on cold air that blows in from Canada.

That’s the rub for me. Government loves to waste money but it’s real money they’re wasting. Somebody has to earn it to pay it and we’re spending more than we take in. So we’re also mortgaging the future generations to waste their money they haven’t even earned yet. Instead of being able to collectively call them out, we’re getting pigeon holed into groups and being pitted against each other. Cloward-Piven strategy, enhanced version.

The details do matter for sure and our tax code is as out of control as our spending. Nobody understands the whole thing, by design.

I’m intrigued by the external revenue service idea and pretty geeked to see what waste and fraud is exposed by DOGE. We all have skin in the game and probably want our taxes lowered. If tariffs shift taxes to what we import and consume instead of what we earn, I’m hip to that. If tariffs encourage more production in the US, I’m hip to that too.

So I too would like to see the government some day not spending money like drunken sailors....but I have yet to ever see it outside of the late 90s....where we had some pretty unique circumstances all happen at once. Taxes were high enough, economy was strong, stock market was in the midst of the tech boom, and NOTHING happened...No wars, no covid, etc. For all I keep hearing about DOGE and gutting everything....The next sentence is we're deploying thousands of troops to help round up migrants....expanding Gitmo to hold 30,000 people....military flights to drop off 80 migrants at a time...hiring thousands of new super ultra highly qualified non DEI (Trump should have just said white aryans while he was at it) to be air traffic controllers. I mean this is going to get crazy expensive...So I will be SHOCKED if we actually spend any less money than we have in years past. And of course im leaving out what Elon might break as he is taking everything apart.....We have another terrorist attack as they are dismantling the FBI...bad is not the word for how that is going to look.