Strictly METAL

to add to my previous point the same people can not listen to music that they fear could be called mainstream.
Honeslty i dont give a shit about classification of music. If i listen to it and i like it, then I like it. End of story.
 
I will agree with you, and its not because I hate that bands get big. I hate that when they do get big their music and attitudes change. As much as people deny it, they become slaves to the record label.

I remember being at the Stone Pony for a show years ago that Jamey from Hatebreed dove from CT in his own car to get to, buying beers for the people standing at the bar. I recently came across a Bulldoze dvd where he was standing on the side of the stage, I think Bulldoze were playing for about 50 people. Where is Jamey now, not at these shows anymore. He's too busy with MTV, 17 different bands, dating models, etc.

I remember being at CBGB, seeing Carly from Candiria dancing on the floor for some band. Again, there was about 50 kids there. These days, I don't know what he's up to. But I know they grew some popularity in the last few years, and they've gone away from the roots that put food on their tables and gas in that crappy van.

Stone Pony again, Tim from VOD is hanging from the rafters, and breaks the water pipe flooding the damn place. Good times. Aren't these guys from the damn Hamptons?

So to reiterate, I dont get mad when bands get popular, I get mad when they forget where they came from.

Korn changed the face of what metal was, and it hasnt been the same since.
 
I agree with bits of all of this

some people think if a band is popular they suck. this is true only most of the time. sometimes the songs on the radio suck but if you hear the rest of the cd(I almost said album) there is some good stuff. Any way I've almost given up on newer stuff minly because of the cookiemonster vocals mentioned earlier. If they are mixed with non- cookie monster vocals I can take it otherwise it's just too much. Any suggestions, maybe even some of the bands mentioned already, that don't have cookie monster on them. Does anybody remember metal church. (they had albums)
 
I don't hate bands for becoming popular. I listen to a lot of non-metal bands that sell tons and tons of records, and have no problem with popularity at all. The thing I don't like is when bands start to suck, and change their music/lose their edge in order to sell more records, or as a result of becoming more popular and losing the mental anguish and frustration that drove them early on.

It's not just music- look at modern art. Many, many artists who were vital early in their careers began to truly suck and churn out loads of mediocre crap once they could sell paintings for a half million bucks to corporate collections.

I don't resent them for seeking success and going after the money. If someone dangled that cash in front of me, I can't say I wouldn't take it and fall prey to the same dynamic. But just because I'd do it myself doesn't mean I'm going to continue to like the bands and artists who do it.

Back on the topic of metal, I've been listening to the Opeth discography chronologically, and I do think they've improved over time. PTH is similar in my book- I *don't* like their earlier record. Not all bands move in the arc from great to suck. Some bands to improve over time and with success.
 
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jbogner said:
I don't hate bands for becoming popular. I listen to a lot of non-metal bands that sell tons and tons of records, and have no problem with popularity at all. The thing I don't like is when bands start to suck, and change their music/lose their edge in order to sell more records, or as a result of becoming more popular and losing the mental anguish and frustration that drove them early on.

It's not just music- look at modern art. Many, many artists who were vital early in their careers began to truly suck and churn out loads of mediocre crap once they could sell paintings for a half million bucks to corporate collections.

I don't resent them for seeking success and going after the money. If someone dangled that cash in front of me, I can't say I wouldn't take it and fall prey to the same dynamic. But just because I'd do it myself doesn't mean I'm going to continue to like the bands and artists who do it.

Back on the topic of metal, I've been listening to the Opeth discography chronologically, and I do think they've improved over time. PTH is similar in my book- I *don't* like their earlier record. Not all bands move in the arc from great to suck. Some bands to improve over time and with success.
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Art is a different game all together. Musicians make a record and anyone can pick it up for free or willingly pay 15 bucks or whatever for it. The songs last forever in all sorts of forms.

Artists make a work, sell it and move on. If they work is successful they generate more work to sell to the many levels of the market: big expensive things for museums and corporations and private collectors, moderately priced work for collectors who want in on the work, and then lower priced big numbered editions for schmoes like us.

An artist does not profit again and again from a work in the way that a musician does from a hit song.

On the other hand a lot more artists are now playing with the market in ways that were unthinkable in the past.

Any artist working on a large scale (esp with sculpture and more and more with architecture) needs capital to realize more ambitious projects. And its true that a lot of them make a lot of garbage to fund those things.

Frank Stella comes to mind. Damien Hirst too. Koons as well. The thing is even at their worst there is something interesting about it even when it's garbage.
 
sixseven said:
Art is a different game all together. Musicians make a record and anyone can pick it up for free or willingly pay 15 bucks or whatever for it. The songs last forever in all sorts of forms.

Artists make a work, sell it and move on. If they work is successful they generate more work to sell to the many levels of the market: big expensive things for museums and corporations and private collectors, moderately priced work for collectors who want in on the work, and then lower priced big numbered editions for schmoes like us.

An artist does not profit again and again from a work in the way that a musician does from a hit song.
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I'm not seeing a major difference in your argument. While there's a difference in the exact nature of the transactions (art being a single large sale versus music as lots of small sales), there's not much difference in the way commercial success affects inspiration and the external financial pressures that cause both artists and musicians to make "safe" choices whether consciously or subconsciously.

You could also argue the capital issue given that artists typically use galleries as sources of capital, while musicians/bands use labels to capitalize their expensive projects. Both in art and music now, though, the creators are funding the production in exchange for much larger chunks of the sales. Hirst and Radiohead have a lot in common in that respect.

That's a pretty major digression from the topic at hand, though. ;)

JB
(Art Director for a group of art magazines. ;) )
 
I saw opeth in AC a few Years ago. They opened for Lamb of God. They may have played the mose precise live set i have ever heard. and they did it without even trying.
 
i don't stop listening to bands if they get popular. i do stop going to the shows because the ticket prices quadrupal along with the douchebag-in-the-crowd level.

there are not many bands that can get to a 3rd album without sucking. i'm a big fan of 1st albums because its usually a lifetime of ideas on 1 album. the following albums are what? 1 year in the making? or god forbid they write and record the whole album in one week in the studio? i hardly even find those albums any good.
i just absolutely hate mall metal. any kind of "metal" where the guitars get quieter while the "singing" starts makes me furiously angry.
i find this trend growing, therefor i usually find newer metal horrible.

there are pleanty of new bands which i love. from a second story window, the number 12 looks like you, the tony danza tapdance extravaganza, ed gein, daughters..
but come to think of it, i think i only listen to the first album of all those bands.
wtf that is annoying.

but i LOVE clutch, and they put out fantastic albums. i think i have 10 of them now. i've seen them live 11 or 12 times too. they have ONE album which is mediocre, elephant riders. and what do you know, thats the album they got the most label support on. they made up for it though, all the new albums after that were great again even though their sound is constantly evolving.
 
jbogner said:
I'm not seeing a major difference in your argument. While there's a difference in the exact nature of the transactions (art being a single large sale versus music as lots of small sales), there's not much difference in the way commercial success affects inspiration and the external financial pressures that cause both artists and musicians to make "safe" choices whether consciously or subconsciously.

You could also argue the capital issue given that artists typically use galleries as sources of capital, while musicians/bands use labels to capitalize their expensive projects. Both in art and music now, though, the creators are funding the production in exchange for much larger chunks of the sales. Hirst and Radiohead have a lot in common in that respect.

That's a pretty major digression from the topic at hand, though. ;)

JB
(Art Director for a group of art magazines. ;) )
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Major digression agreed...I guess the difference is that a musician can record a record for peanuts these days. All the money goes into promotion and attaching more famous/established names to the recording artist.
The amount of money spent on promotion in the art world is relatively small in comparison.
 
Back on the subject of metal, I was reading Pitchfork today and came across Hammers of Misfortune. Holy shit. I can't believe I'm so late to the game on that band. Mind blowing prog metal.
 
jbogner said:
Back on the subject of metal, I was reading Pitchfork today and came across Hammers of Misfortune. Holy shit. I can't believe I'm so late to the game on that band. Mind blowing prog metal.
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Yeah, they rule. I think its one of the girls from L7 on guitar or bass. Check out Lord Weird Slough Feg...the seed of Hammers.

Been listening to a lot of Trouble lately. Earth too.
 
gtluke said:
but i LOVE clutch, and they put out fantastic albums. i think i have 10 of them now. i've seen them live 11 or 12 times too. they have ONE album which is mediocre, elephant riders. and what do you know, thats the album they got the most label support on. they made up for it though, all the new albums after that were great again even though their sound is constantly evolving.
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Love Clutch. One of my favorite bands ever.
 
jbogner said:
Back on the subject of metal, I was reading Pitchfork today and came across Hammers of Misfortune. Holy shit. I can't believe I'm so late to the game on that band. Mind blowing prog metal.
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Funny, I just read that Hammers article...Brandon is a friend of mine and hes writing a book on the history of North American Black Metal. Super cool guy, from Jersey too, way deep in the pines...
He puts on shows from time to time, like the one we did in LIC.
 
looky looky

look what the post man dropped on my doorstep today....
41zirwRfmuL._SS500_.jpg

Chaos In Motion 2007-2008(Deluxe Collector's Edition)(3 CD/2 DVD) [BOX SET] [COLLECTOR'S EDITION] [LIVE]

:getsome::getsome:
 
sixseven said:
Been listening to a lot of Trouble lately. Earth too.
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Word. Though I've got nothing but respect for them, I've never gotten into Trouble very much. For whatever reason, Eric's voice doesn't grab me. Maybe I need to go there again. I'm a big fan of Earth, the latest one is wonderful stuff. We're going to see them in Philly in two weeks, playing with Sunn.

Along similar lines as Trouble, though, I've been lately rocking The Obsessed, especially The Church Within, and 80's era Pentagram.
 
The Trouble vocals are a hard one to take, that and the fact that they are born again or something like that...I heard they played the Knitting Factory recently, can't believe I missed them!
Another band like that is Kings X...weird vocals, religious under/overtones but the early stuff is killer.

One of the most listened to in my collection has to be Cathedral "Forest of Equilibrium". A perfect record.
Venom "Black Metal" is up there too...and:
Morbid Angel "Formulas Fatal to the Flesh"
Carcass "Reek of Putrefaction"
Mortician "Zombie Apocalypse"
Anal Cunt...anything by them. Seth Putnam rules. I bought him like 10 drinks one night and he drank them in the space of 20 minutes and blacked out, then he went on to do an hour long set. If you havent seen AC, go the next time they come around cause it could be the last.

Anyone into Last Days of Humanity or Sublime Cadaveric Decomposition? Total gore from abroad... if you are into that kind of thing it doesn't get much better than that.
 
sixseven said:
Venom "Black Metal" is up there too...and:
Morbid Angel "Formulas Fatal to the Flesh"
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"Black Metal is certainly a classic, Buried Alive is still one of my favorite songs. Dont burn the Witch is up ther too.

My personal favorite Morbid Angel was Alter of Sacrifice. Suffocation is a great song.

Heres a little bit of Jersey metal trivia, where did Morbid Angel's Eric Rutan get his start. Hint-Huge NJ gore metal band late 80's early 90"s
 
walter said:
"Black Metal is certainly a classic, Buried Alive is still one of my favorite songs. Dont burn the Witch is up ther too.

My personal favorite Morbid Angel was Alter of Sacrifice. Suffocation is a great song.

Heres a little bit of Jersey metal trivia, where did Morbid Angel's Eric Rutan get his start. Hint-Huge NJ gore metal band late 80's early 90"s
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Ripping Corpse. They were discovered by Gunter Ford. They rehearsed in some old school building near Red Bank. Gunter rented the space to them and heard them thru the walls and thought it was totally ahead of its time. Its all weird because Gunter is an old german dude and he used to do commercials for Ricola and BMW or some shit in germany and METAL IS NOT HIS THING.
He lives in Rumson and runs SPV USA records and World Entertainment.
He is fond of wearing Madras golf shorts to shows when Hate Eternal comes around (Eriks band). Hes a very cool guy.
Ripping Corpse's singer went on to sing with Dim Mak.
I have met Erik several times and have a pint glass engraved by all the Morbid guys. Nice guys all of them. I worked on a film scene with Steve Tucker once...he did some soundtrack vocals on a song with Dave Lombardo on drums and 100,000 live bees. True story.
Never met David Vincent though. Covenant...thats a badass record.
Warcricket...please leave the room now.
 
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