Kingdom Trails trail closures

Good to see the KTA buying land, it's hard to believe with the popularity of MTBing and the amount of cash flow into the KTA that they did not do this sooner. Relying of private landowners exclusively for trail building does sound ridiculous. Buying land is a step in the right direction for all involved. IMO
 
Yea, hopefully it goes through.

I’d expect a lot more than just trails on the property. They’ll have to pay that mortgage somehow.
 
Interesting. If that land was purschased earler, the price would have been much more reasonable. Not sure how KTA can buy enough land to make a difference at $4K+ per acre and the associated expenses. The main problem reliance is private land.
 
jShort said:
Yea, hopefully it goes through.

I’d expect a lot more than just trails on the property. They’ll have to pay that mortgage somehow.
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I wonder how it will affect pass prices? However, it appears like they be sitting on either land an/or cash:


Notable sources of revenue 2017
Total Revenue $1,051,996
Total Functional Expenses$648,849
Net income$403,147

Total Assets$1,479,470
Total Liabilities$33,262
Net Assets$1,446,208

 
onetracker said:
Not sure how KTA can buy enough land to make a difference at $4K+ per acre and the associated expenses. The main problem reliance is private land.
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I believe for Kingdom to work, there will always be a reliance on private land. KTA buying land now makes them a stake holder in the area and let's the community (other landowners) know they are not just treating the area like a Cash cow. It's good for business and a good relations gesture with private landowners.
 
I'm curious how this works in regards to the VT law that keeps the landowner being accountable as long as they don't receive $$.

KT is/will be a land owner, and they'll be receiving compensation. I believe they already own the area where sidewinder is, so possibly already an issue.
 
Santapez said:
I'm curious how this works in regards to the VT law that keeps the landowner being accountable as long as they don't receive $$.

KT is/will be a land owner, and they'll be receiving compensation. I believe they already own the area where sidewinder is, so possibly already an issue.
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Isn't the fee a voluntary fee and not right of fee? I think that's the work around.
 
stb222 said:
I wonder how it will affect pass prices? However, it appears like they be sitting on either land an/or cash:


Notable sources of revenue 2017
Total Revenue $1,051,996
Total Functional Expenses$648,849
Net income$403,147

Total Assets$1,479,470
Total Liabilities$33,262
Net Assets$1,446,208
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mostly cash, from their latest form 990
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/30353477

1581446827021.png
 
Norm said:
They need to make a parking lot.

Then they need to focus their efforts on stopping the town from becoming a goddamn Grateful Dead show every day in the summer.
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Exactly what I was thinking. They need a parking lot with facilities.
 
According to the related post on KTA website, due to use restrictions on the 240 acre property, it will not be used as a summer or winter welcome center.
 
Santapez said:
I'm curious how this works in regards to the VT law that keeps the landowner being accountable as long as they don't receive $$.

KT is/will be a land owner, and they'll be receiving compensation. I believe they already own the area where sidewinder is, so possibly already an issue.
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My WAG is KTA itself won't be buying the land, but some sort of LLC that KTA will be one of the partners in. At least on the legalese side. Publicly it'll be easier to just say "KTA is buying the property." This is somewhat common in the business world.

I would also imagine that house should generate a fair income as a rental.
 
Ian F said:
My WAG is KTA itself won't be buying the land, but some sort of LLC that KTA will be one of the partners in. At least on the legalese side. Publicly it'll be easier to just say "KTA is buying the property." This is somewhat common in the business world.

I would also imagine that house should generate a fair income as a rental.
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this... 100%
 
so, if you believe Zillow..... two years ago (end of 2018) the property was listed for 699K....cut off trail access to create controversy then list it over 1M....interesting tactic. appears to be working. says on market for over 500 days.
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
Article smacked of a bit of fluff and damage control. I guess the point was to put that piece on a website that gets a lot of traffic, to educate folks about the relationship between private owners and the land they allow for use? Do that many people read Pinkbike in the Northeast? Sounds like the KTA has its work cut out for them.
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I agree - I was running out the door (to head to Vermont actually) when posting the link. I should have written that the comments provide a better overall view on the situation. One thing I thought stood out from the article was that piece that Washington state does for their land owners called "current use". I think it would be a good thing to offer a tax break on recreation as well as the agriculture and forestry in Vermont given the changing climate up there.

Captain Brainstorm said:
Riding up in VT for the last 25 years, I can tell you that the demographic has changed and this sort of thing was bound to happen. Around10-15yrs ago it mostly the more hard-core type of rider you'd see up here. More of a local scene, and the trails were built to reflect their riding philosophy (gnar and big hits). With the advent of machine made trails, and the rapid rise of a summer-season economy, most of the folks in the more well-known trail centers are beginner to intermediate riders, or those newer to the sport. The gnar is "local knowledge only" or not on the maps. Newer riders ride with no context as to what was before. And KT may be the biggest, but its not the only place to ride. The Stowe/Waterbury/Morrisville area is starting to really blow up, and its only a matter of time before shit hits the fan there also. No one has a clue as to whether they are riding on state or private land. Along with all of this comes the inevitable bad apples. People ride in groups of 10-15 hogging the entire trail, going the wrong way, blocking traffic, blowing down trails like their Strava KOMs depend on it almost mowing down my kids, etc. I can honestly say that in the last 10yrs I've run into more assholes on the trail up in VT than I ever have in NJ. Matter of fact, NJ is probably one of the more friendlier places that I ride.
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100% agree and well said. When I first started riding mtn bikes in Stowe (mid 90's), it was a missmash of old Jeep, hiking and XC ski trails. The only way to find stuff was to explore. I remember spending a bunch of rides getting lost and hiking out to a main road. But the terrain and where there was good trails was incredible.

Like you said 10-15 years ago it got a lot better. Trails were worked on by a dedicated local group. I was lucky to get to see a lot of stuff many out of towners didn't. Just like you said - Local knowlesge Only. I remember one day at Irie a few Canadians came in asking where the good riding was. They were soon directed to the Stowe XC center.

I've noticed the last 5-10 years the trails in Stowe have gotten really good and plentiful. I rode their last summer and was amazed at how fun some of the trails were but also how the vibe has changed with a new type of rider group. I guess after you add plenty of well built and very fun trail + clear trail maps + a modern bike that makes a novice an expert + IG posts with hashtag StoweMTB and people don't have to worry about the history or put in some work exploring or trail etiquette.

If you and I were running into kooks up in Stowe I can't imagine the shit that was going on at KT. Stowe locals see it with the winter ski season (which has been crazy with how blown up the resort has gotten as well). I little town in the NEK with more mtn bike popularity 😱
 
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