Kingdom Trails trail closures

jdog said:
Not a replacement for KT, but I spent a week in Bellingham WA this Aug.

For the effort it takes to get to northern VT, i'll be heading back to Bellingham first.

There are endless trails and in a week of riding we never repeated a trail.
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Along the lines of heading to the PNW, I watched a few YouTubers do the BC Bike Race this year and those trails look incredible. That looks like it would be an awesome place to spend a week or so. 2020 is likely a no go for me, but I may look into one of the vacation trips they offer in 2021. https://bcbikeride.com/what-is-ride/
 
Xler8 said:
Why does MTB’ing attract so many douch bags and dicks? We see it around here and with the amount of riders that show up @ KT’s, one can expect to encounter many.

It seems other activities have smaller user groups and these people have little impact. However in this particular example, it is this specific user group that seems to be at the heart of the matter. It’s not about the dollar and cents.

The KTA has done a great job in getting people to come out and visit. Now they need to do a better job in making sure there is peace between the user groups and land owners. The land owners have little vested interest in people riding bikes, but the business owners have a totally different perspective on the increase in traffic.

Now that KT’s demonstrated it can attract people from all over, don’t be surprised to see them come back with something even better. It’ll be different, but just as good.
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If there's one thing I learned in life, its that the assholes are EVERYWHERE. They're all around you, maybe even right now. They look like us, act like us, dress like us, play the same sports as us, they've infiltrated every aspect of human existence. And its contagious, sometimes we even get infected with assholeitus. The particular sub-group of asshole you reference above are the type that live in their own little worlds (where they are supreme ruler) and think that everything somehow revolves around them. Every infraction is a personal affront that must be addressed with self-righteous passive-aggressive action, you know, because they always have the moral high-ground. If you happen to fall in with someone who isn't an asshole, consider yourself very fortunate, and stick together!
 
I would like to add that it's not just your (the collective you.. not pointing fingers at an individual here) behaviour in person. Yes, maybe you're nice to people on the trails, but how much shitty behavior have we seen online?! And to each other as mountain bikers?! Facebook, strava, Instagram... I've been shit on personally for monitoring a Facebook page because someone didn't like my decision to remove a suggestive post. So while the final straw may have been an in-person biker/horse rider interaction for kingdom trails, it doesn't mean they also haven't seen shit posts online about them riding horses on their own trails. "Private" means jack shit on the internet.
 
MissJR said:
I would like to add that it's not just your (the collective you.. not pointing fingers at an individual here) behaviour in person. Yes, maybe you're nice to people on the trails, but how much shitty behavior have we seen online?! And to each other as mountain bikers?! Facebook, strava, Instagram... I've been shit on personally for monitoring a Facebook page because someone didn't like my decision to remove a suggestive post. So while the final straw may have been an in-person biker/horse rider interaction for kingdom trails, it doesn't mean they also haven't seen shit posts online about them riding horses on their own trails. "Private" means jack shit on the internet.
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Of course private doesn’t mean anything anymore, we’ve moved into the new era of entitlement (also known as Socialism, or Communism), where owning something is wrong, because I want it too, and it’s not fair that I can’t have it.
 
Monkey Soup said:
Of course private doesn’t mean anything anymore, we’ve moved into the new era of entitlement (also known as Socialism, or Communism), where owning something is wrong, because I want it too, and it’s not fair that I can’t have it.
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While I agree Americans in general have an entitlement problem, in my experience those who express those feelings are more often than not vehemently anti-communist/socialist. The more conservative they are, they more they only care about themselves.
 
roc said:
More details, was it really close to an actual fight? I need to know how that happens on group ride! Inquiring minds want to know
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he was the only one interested in fighting, im pretty sure the rest of us were just trying to hold back laughter so he wouldnt lash out physically
 
Ian F said:
While I agree Americans in general have an entitlement problem, in my experience those who express those feelings are more often than not vehemently anti-communist/socialist. The more conservative they are, they more they only care about themselves.
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Caring only about yourself or being self-centered does not necessarily mean that you also feel that you're owed something for simply existing, or can take that which does not belong to you. Two different things, and nothing to do with politics, which is where you're trying to take this
 
Monkey Soup said:
Caring only about yourself or being self-centered does not necessarily mean that you also feel that you're owed something for simply existing, or can take that which does not belong to you. Two different things, and nothing to do with politics, which is where you're trying to take this
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Normally I try to stay away from these types of discussions, but your initial statement alluding a sense of entitlement represents some sort of alliance with communist or socialist adherence was a line I simply cannot let go as it is very much untrue. Or any sense of "being owed." It is very much prevalent on all sides.

These days, I find myself more and more alienated from all of the political parties, so I take offense at being accused of being political. Otherwise, we will simply have to agree to disagree on this point for the sake of forum civility.
 
Ian F said:
Normally I try to stay away from these types of discussions, but your initial statement alluding a sense of entitlement represents some sort of alliance with communist or socialist adherence was a line I simply cannot let go as it is very much untrue. Or any sense of "being owed." It is very much prevalent on all sides.

These days, I find myself more and more alienated from all of the political parties, so I take offense at being accused of being political. Otherwise, we will simply have to agree to disagree on this point for the sake of forum civility.
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Just like you have your personal experience, I have mine. I'm fortunate to know a lot of very generous people, both liberal and conservative. I don't know any generous communists or socialists though (and oddly enough, I know/knew a couple). They talk the good game, but don't practice it.
 
Even in the (unlikely) event that every rider is courteous, it's still possible to reach the point of over-saturation. It would be mostly subjective to determine how many bikers are too many, but could they possibly limit the number of day passes sold to help keep the numbers in check? Maybe the closures will help spur the development of other options in VT, which may help spread the riders around and take some of the load off of KT.
 
Ian F said:
Normally I try to stay away from these types of discussions, but your initial statement alluding a sense of entitlement represents some sort of alliance with communist or socialist adherence was a line I simply cannot let go as it is very much untrue. Or any sense of "being owed." It is very much prevalent on all sides.

These days, I find myself more and more alienated from all of the political parties, so I take offense at being accused of being political. Otherwise, we will simply have to agree to disagree on this point for the sake of forum civility.
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SmooveP said:
Even in the (unlikely) event that every rider is courteous, it's still possible to reach the point of over-saturation. It would be mostly subjective to determine how many bikers are too many, but could they possibly limit the number of day passes sold to help keep the numbers in check? Maybe the closures will help spur the development of other options in VT, which may help spread the riders around and take some of the load off of KT.
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I think its more a point of people reaching the end of their tether vs. over-saturation. Once the local non-riding population starts complaining, you've reached that point, and its hard to bring them back to your side.
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
I think its more a point of people reaching the end of their tether vs. over-saturation. Once the local non-riding population starts complaining, you've reached that point, and its hard to bring them back to your side.
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Good point. I'd like to think that there were multiple behind-the-scenes conversations between the KTA and the landowners leading up to this, but maybe not. Makes me worry about our own access here in NJ. I'm sure there are parks where there is a single decision maker who could ban us if they got ticked off enough at MTBers.
 
SmooveP said:
Even in the (unlikely) event that every rider is courteous, it's still possible to reach the point of over-saturation. It would be mostly subjective to determine how many bikers are too many, but could they possibly limit the number of day passes sold to help keep the numbers in check? Maybe the closures will help spur the development of other options in VT, which may help spread the riders around and take some of the load off of KT.
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Possibly... or we wait until the (usual) ebb and flow of the hobby. I sort of remember back in the late 90's when it seemed like mtn biking had gotten so popular and all of the local trails were crowded. Then it tailed off in the mid-00's for whatever reason. Might happen again.

SmooveP said:
Good point. I'd like to think that there were multiple behind-the-scenes conversations between the KTA and the landowners leading up to this, but maybe not. Makes me worry about our own access here in NJ. I'm sure there are parks where there is a single decision maker who could ban us if they got ticked off enough at MTBers.
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jdog has mentioned similar conversations about access to Six Mile Run.
 
SmooveP said:
Good point. I'd like to think that there were multiple behind-the-scenes conversations between the KTA and the landowners leading up to this, but maybe not. Makes me worry about our own access here in NJ. I'm sure there are parks where there is a single decision maker who could ban us if they got ticked off enough at MTBers.
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Backing away from a political convo
 
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