How Much Does Locking Out Suspension Help?

[Maurice]

So as an update to this, I rode Chimney Rock Sunday and tried locking the suspension out on a few of the climbs there. To say it helped would be an understatement. I felt a pretty big difference with the rear shock locked out. Much more power translated, and my traction was much-much-much better. I'm thinking the Pro-Pedal setting on this shock just doesn't work like it's supposed to.

After I did it on 2 climbs on the blue trails, we did some red trails and I couldn't help but use it everywhere. Riding up any hill with it not locked was like riding on a mattress. Front shock not as big a deal since I generally don't stand on the FS. But I did try it a few times. Not sure if that is such a big deal or not.

You probably have the rebound set way too low, I can't imagine having better traction on those trails with the shock locked out. Even on my 575 which is extremely plush I notice a wild difference when trying to climb "locked out" (there is no lock out on the RP23, just 3 levels of pro-pedal and pro-pedal on/off). I only set pro-pedal on on the road or fire-roads, everywhere else I'm better off without. And I do stand while climbing.

Now I don't know about Specialized, I've only ridden VPP-style and single-pivot designs. Both offer better traction in climbs due to the fact that the rear wheel follows the irregularities of the trail.

IMO the fork settings make more of a difference when climbing, but then Yeti makes real nice climbing bikes that happen to be awesome descenders also.

Maurice

 

[Norm]

Norm do you ride SS much or at all? If you are really riding just one bike you should hop on a few 29ers and see what you think. I just gotta look at the new C-Dales the other day and there are about 4 different F 29er models. Some are really super.

Well historically yes but that's changing. I'm not going to ride the FS much in the winter. I don't think the shocks took well to the cold cold temps last year so I'm going to run the SS more. And I'm building up a hardtail bike to possibly race with next year. So we're talking 3 very shortly. I have a 4th but it's the super-backup and/or trainer bike.

 

[elzoller]

... but then Yeti makes real nice climbing bikes that happen to be awesome descenders also.
Maurice

I totally agree with that I MISS MY KOKO!!

 

[Norm]

You probably have the rebound set way too low, I can't imagine having better traction on those trails with the shock locked out. Even on my 575 which is extremely plush I notice a wild difference when trying to climb "locked out" (there is no lock out on the RP23, just 3 levels of pro-pedal and pro-pedal on/off). I only set pro-pedal on on the road or fire-roads, everywhere else I'm better off without. And I do stand while climbing.

Now I don't know about Specialized, I've only ridden VPP-style and single-pivot designs. Both offer better traction in climbs due to the fact that the rear wheel follows the irregularities of the trail.

IMO the fork settings make more of a difference when climbing, but then Yeti makes real nice climbing bikes that happen to be awesome descenders also.

Maurice

Interesting. I'll check it out but really, not even close between the 2 for me. So maybe it's me, the settings, the bike design...who knows. Since I've gotten this bike I notice that climbing things is harder than on the full-rigid by a long shot. I just assumed the FS loses something.

Thanks for the thoughts, more stuff to chew on.

 

[ytc100]

do you check the pressure before each ride? i am surprised that the rp3 loses 30 plus pounds of pressure between rides. not to TJ norm, but general question - is this normal? i have noticed that the rear has been feeling a bit dead recently, could this indicate that the shock needs to be serviced?

That is not normal. Time for an air sleeve service probably.

http://www.pushindustries.com/services.php?serv_page=fox air shocks&title=Fox Air Shocks
(scroll all the way down).

Or do it yourself, it's not too difficult actually.

 

[ytc100]

Norm - if your rebound is set too slow the shock will "pack up" - slowly move further into its compression because it's not rebounding fast enough. Rebound set too fast and you'll feel the rear end bouncing. A lot of manufacturers recommend the curb test where you ride seated off of a curb and adjust the rebound until you get no appreciable bounce when returning to the top of your travel.

 

[Norm]

Norm - if your rebound is set too slow the shock will "pack up" - slowly move further into its compression because it's not rebounding fast enough. Rebound set too fast and you'll feel the rear end bouncing. A lot of manufacturers recommend the curb test where you ride seated off of a curb and adjust the rebound until you get no appreciable bounce when returning to the top of your travel.

Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely check that stuff out. As you can tell I generally just go and ask questions later. OK, it's like 16 months later but I did ask. Ironic that I've rebuilt the shock (it is easy) but I have no idea how to use it. Sort of how I work in the financial industry and am a blithering idiot about investing. I'll chime in when I check some of this stuff out.

 

[ChrisG]

Just as Maurice notes, your traction with the shock locked out should not be better, no sir. You have a solidly-proven suspension design on the FSR that should be working for you on climbs. I'd cast another vote for optimizing your shock setup before any further conclusions are reached.

When I was riding my Racer X, I only locked out the rear on pavement or the smoothest of fire roads. Otherwise, I wanted the suspension active in order to maximize traction in the rear. If you're gonna drag all that stuff around, you want to get as much out of it as possible.

I can vouch for the issues posed by going back and forth from rigid SS to FS geared, btw. It ain't pretty.

 

[Norm]

Just as Maurice notes, your traction with the shock locked out should not be better, no sir. You have a solidly-proven suspension design on the FSR that should be working for you on climbs. I'd cast another vote for optimizing your shock setup before any further conclusions are reached.

When I was riding my Racer X, I only locked out the rear on pavement or the smoothest of fire roads. Otherwise, I wanted the suspension active in order to maximize traction in the rear. If you're gonna drag all that stuff around, you want to get as much out of it as possible.

I can vouch for the issues posed by going back and forth from rigid SS to FS geared, btw. It ain't pretty.

Jeez another one. You guys totally have me doubting myself now. You do have to agree that more power is going to be translated to the wheel though, no? I mean nothing is lost (well little) when you lock it out.

I seem to spin out in loose gravely stuff with it open, but don't really have a problem with it locked out. Also I find the bike much more predictable with any sort of log or rock when it's locked, at least going up. Obviously downhill is another story.

I'll have to check how I have it set tomorrow morning if I have time. My one thought is that maybe I have the rebound set to the slowest setting.

 

[Shaggz]

when you say lcoked, you mean completely locked? i used to have a stratos helos on my super V. the lockout was connected to a thumb shifter mounted on the handle bar, and that thing used to pogo when completely locked.

 

[Norm]

Yup, completely locked. It might move a hair but practically speaking it doesn't give at all.

 

[ArmyOfNone]

I have ridden a FS bike 4 times ever. That may be a lot. F em i say!

 

[J-Dro]

I can vouch for the issues posed by going back and forth from rigid SS to FS geared, btw. It ain't pretty.

Hmmm I don't have the same impression. I jump back and forth between my 29er SS and my 26" with 5" plush all-mountain machine without any issues. Granted, my SS isn't rigid up front anymore. In fact, a couple weeks ago, I did a ride at High Rocks in PA... a very rocky tech park. The 1st 6 mile loop was on my 26" full squish. For the 2nd loop, I switched to the 29er just for the hell of it. Both were fun, and I adjusted my riding style accordingly. Had a blast on both loops. I don't agree that you have to commit 100% to the 29er.

 

[Norm]

Hmmm I don't have the same impression. I jump back and forth between my 29er SS and my 26" with 5" plush all-mountain machine without any issues. Granted, my SS isn't rigid up front anymore. In fact, a couple weeks ago, I did a ride at High Rocks in PA... a very rocky tech park. The 1st 6 mile loop was on my 26" full squish. For the 2nd loop, I switched to the 29er just for the hell of it. Both were fun, and I adjusted my riding style accordingly. Had a blast on both loops. I don't agree that you have to commit 100% to the 29er.

Kirt mentioned that you were the only guy he knew able to go back and forth. But then Jake seems to be able to do it also.

I checked out my setup this morning. First of all I've been running in full-open position the whole time so I haven't even used the Pro Pedal option. The shock is at 150 PSI which is 25 pounds lower than the manual recommends. The rebound is set fully to fast.

 

[Maurice]

Kirt mentioned that you were the only guy he knew able to go back and forth. But then Jake seems to be able to do it also.

I checked out my setup this morning. First of all I've been running in full-open position the whole time so I haven't even used the Pro Pedal option. The shock is at 150 PSI which is 25 pounds lower than the manual recommends. The rebound is set fully to fast.

That is what I meant by "low", as in the lowest position where it's going to rebound fast. You experience lots of bobbing and that will definitely result in a crappy ride. I don't know how you did all this time.
Typically you set the rebound to the slowest setting and go from there. It's better to err that way. Mine is always set to one or two clicks from slowest. As the damper wears out, or with thinner oil (for faster compression on those shocks that don't have that setting), then it's full-on slowest.
150 PSI sounds low also, you have to have been bottoming out. But then with that fast rebound it must have been compounded on rough terrain.

You're going to (re)discover full suspension.

Maurice

 

[Mike679]

Norm:

Just for a point of reference, I weigh somewhere around 190 - 195 with full gear (Camelbak, etc.) and have my shock pumped up to 205 - 210 psi with the rebound typically set 3 clicks from slowest (I believe the Triad has 7 total settings for rebound, so I'm somewhere in the middle).

Pump that thing up, flip the lever to Pro-pedal, and I'm sure you'll find the bike to be much more lively. Also, make sure you have the lever on "open" when you pump it up.

Mike

 

[Norm]

That is what I meant by "low", as in the lowest position where it's going to rebound fast. You experience lots of bobbing and that will definitely result in a crappy ride. I don't know how you did all this time.
Typically you set the rebound to the slowest setting and go from there. It's better to err that way. Mine is always set to one or two clicks from slowest. As the damper wears out, or with thinner oil (for faster compression on those shocks that don't have that setting), then it's full-on slowest.
150 PSI sounds low also, you have to have been bottoming out. But then with that fast rebound it must have been compounded on rough terrain.

You're going to (re)discover full suspension.

Maurice

I guess I don't know how I did it all this time either. Actually in some ways this is great. Consider. I went from a full-rigid Trek that was too small and had a cramped cockpit. So going to *any* FS was just a quantum leap, even if it's been setup wrong the whole time.

Norm:

Just for a point of reference, I weigh somewhere around 190 - 195 with full gear (Camelbak, etc.) and have my shock pumped up to 205 - 210 psi with the rebound typically set 3 clicks from slowest (I believe the Triad has 7 total settings for rebound, so I'm somewhere in the middle).

Pump that thing up, flip the lever to Pro-pedal, and I'm sure you'll find the bike to be much more lively. Also, make sure you have the lever on "open" when you pump it up.

Mike

That's a good reference. We are basically the same "operating" weight, even if you are 4 inches taller! Thanks for the specifics, they help a lot.

Thanks all for the help so far. I'm really looking forward to going out again now. And while my races/rides thus far have been done with my suspension setup poorly, I'm pretty happy I found this out *before* the 24 hour race.

Good stuff. Thanks!

 

[bonefishjake]

i'm going to really have to take a look at my set up when I get the bike back b/c after reading this i'm about 100% sure it is set up incorrectly. but like norm, coming from a cramped, 10 year old rigid trek, any squish was good. case in point: I rode the front shock locked out for three ride at the tourne right after I got the bike and didn't even realize it. ok, i'm a dummy sometimes...i digresss....

as for my 29er flopability skillz...well I certainly can't ride my typical 'point & shoot' style but I truly find the rigid mary much more fun and much more challenging. or i guess i'm just that good.

 

[Norm]

i'm going to really have to take a look at my set up when I get the bike back b/c after reading this i'm about 100% sure it is set up incorrectly. but like norm, coming from a cramped, 10 year old rigid trek, any squish was good. case in point: I rode the front shock locked out for three ride at the tourne right after I got the bike and didn't even realize it. ok, i'm a dummy sometimes...i digresss....

as for my 29er flopability skillz...well I certainly can't ride my typical 'point & shoot' style but I truly find the rigid mary much more fun and much more challenging. or i guess i'm just that good.

Well obviously I'm in Full Disclosure mode as well. I unknowingly rode my bike several times at CR with it fully locked out. But it wasn't right after I got it, just somewhere along the line last year.

But the 26/29-floppability isn't so much about your Mad Skillz such as easy of flop. You dig? Do you have any problems going fro 26 to 29 or vice versa?

 

[elzoller]

Well obviously I'm in Full Disclosure mode as well. I unknowingly rode my bike several times at CR with it fully locked out. But it wasn't right after I got it, just somewhere along the line last year.

In that case, a few months back at the Diablo Demo day, I took one Rocky Mtn for a ride, I crashed (well, I jumped off, the bike crashed ) and fcucked up the Rear Derr. I go back to the tent to get it fixed, and the guy goes to me "You had the front shock locked!" How the F' do I know??!, it still felt like way more travel than I am used too. Ended up taking a bigger bike for my next runs and I made sure this time I had the suspension UNLOCKED.