Hartshorne/Huber Conditions

wonderturtle

Well-Known Member
You have listed plenty of reasons why a dedicated Hartshorne / Huber work crew with a much more solid plan and frequent TM's is needed: too many parks with not enough staff.

And the rogue trails you mention are a big reason that MCPS should re-evaluate it's trail plan for Hartshorne. With a group of mtn bikers making sustainable and fun trail that riders would love to ride and a crew out in the woods more frequently - rogue trails wouldn't be an issue. I think mtn bike specific trails and a pump/jump section for the younger kids in the area (that I've seen hanging out and making jumps) would be go a long way.

BTW, WonderTurtle wasn't bashing 70 year olds at all (unless it was directed at me where I actually bashed one in my post). I feel like he gives them props- like he said MCPS relies on the older folks to do the work at all MCPS areas.

Wasn’t bashing the volunteers at all. I think it’s pretty clear that my ire was directed squarely at the park system.

If anything i feel bad for the volunteer (of which I am one as I have done several MCPS tm sessions over the years). I feel bad cause they’re getting used. The tm sessions are a waste of time. Do minimal good. They send them out blindly with no plan. And they just work on the first (commonly non-issue) they encounter. Leaving the bad stuff untouched. They’re being used so that MCPS can brag about the volunteer program. Its not their fault.

When I see logs block trails for months, trailheads (within view of the parking lot!) completely overgrown, completely blown out trails that are WAY beyond the ability of a 2 hr TM to fix that tells me one thing - neglect on the part of MCPS.

I hope they read this btw. And they pick up a shovel, hedge clippers, and chainsaw and spend just a little time maintaining the parks

Or if incapable let dedicated volunteers do it as we see with allaire (and the various other parks where JORBA works) and 6mr

But the combination of neglect on their part and not letting a capable /knowledgeable group step in to help is just beyond ridiculous
 
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TimBay

Well-Known Member
Wasn’t bashing the volunteers at all. Not sure how you get that from my post. I think it’s pretty clear that my ire was directed squarely at the park system.

If anything i feel bad for the volunteer (of which I am one as I have done several MCPS tm sessions over the years). I feel bad cause they’re getting used. The tm sessions are a waste of time. Do minimal good. They send them out blindly with no plan. And they just work on the first (commonly non-issue) they encounter. Leaving the bad stuff untouched. They’re being used so that MCPS can brag about the volunteer program. Its not their fault.

When I see logs block trails for months, trailheads (within view of the parking lot!) completely overgrown, completely blown out trails that are WAY beyond the ability of a 2 hr TM to fix that tells me one thing - neglect on the part of MCPS.

I hope they read this btw. And they pick up a shovel, hedge clippers, and chainsaw and spend just a little time maintaining the parks

Or if incapable let dedicated volunteers do it as we see with allaire (and the various other parks where JORBA works) and 6mr

But the combination of neglect on their part and not letting a capable /knowledgeable group step in to help is just beyond ridiculous
So this is what we're trying to work towards. Park systems have limited funds and a whole bunch of rules from county officials and all that. There's a TM thread I created in this section. Let's move all discussions over there to not clog up the conditions thread.
 

wonderturtle

Well-Known Member
So this is what we're trying to work towards. Park systems have limited funds and a whole bunch of rules from county officials and all that. There's a TM thread I created in this section. Let's move all discussions over there to not clog up the conditions thread.

The funds/ manpower argument is b.s.

when a trailhead right next to the parking lot gets completely overgrown and all it takes it one employee, hedge clippers and a 1/2 hour funds and manpower is not the problem. Sorry and I’m done
 

TimBay

Well-Known Member
Well, they're doing stuff. Cut out all the trees. Unfortunately, that includes the one on Mt Laurel, which is unfortunate as I'll never have a chance to clean it. But I'd rather sacrifice that one to have flow restored elsewhere.
 

ChrisG

Unapologetic Lifer for Rock and Roll
IMG_1612.jpg


I rode Hartshorne and Huber yesterday. This finally happened at the top of Laurel Ridge. The soil that was displaced to create this gully is liberally spread all over the trail below the closure.

The lower section of the Water Tower trail is eroded beyond any sensible state of sustainability or safety, and should be closed.
 

AndyJ

Well-Known Member
This finally happened at the top of Laurel Ridge. The soil that was displaced to create this gully is liberally spread all over the trail below the closure.
On the bright side, the tree in the switchback that the closed section was bypassing has been cleared.
The lower section of the Water Tower trail is eroded beyond any sensible state of sustainability or safety, and should be closed.
You're going the wrong direction ;) I enjoy the challenge of trying to make it up that. I used to be able to clear it when it was in better shape, but today, not so much.

Wasn't very crowded today, for a Saturday afternoon. I guess most of the sensible people either enjoyed the more comfortable morning temperatures or were waiting for the evening. The heat/humidity just sucks the energy out of me.

... and the pump at the repair station is already broken. This is why we can't have nice things. :p
 
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Karate Monkey

Well-Known Member
For those curious, despite the occasional downpours/thunderstorms the past few days, the park is dry/with no standing water, even on the Rocky Point extension near the bridge that always seems to have a few puddles.

My favorite 'extra' climb up to the top of the bunker is so overgrown that the trail is completely obscured in some spots. Wouldn't recommend heading up there by bike until winter kills off some of the vegetation.
 

wonderturtle

Well-Known Member
Hartshorne is completely overgrown. I cut rocky point short. Then went into grand tour and cut that short as well.

F#^cking disgrace
 
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SmooveP

Well-Known Member
Hartshorne is completely overgrown. I cut rocky point short. Then went into grand tour and cut that short as well.

F#^cking disgrace
I did a full ride of both parks yesterday and decided I would try to objectively measure the problem areas. Out of 18.5 miles, there is about .2 miles of trail where you can't avoid the overgrowth touching your legs. The seriously eroded sections that people are griping about at Hartshorne add up to around .5 miles. This includes the section of Laurel Ridge that is currently taped off. This section was closed off years ago and illegally reopened by mountain bikers, so maybe shouldn't be included.

All of the trees/logs that were laying across the trail have been removed, including several that were easily rideable. Except for that one at Huber you posted on FB that's at an intersection that requires you to adjust your course by 16".

I also decided to do a rough count of the trail users I saw out there. Here's what I came up with:
- 33 encounters with hikers/runners, with an average group size of 3, so maybe close to 100 people total.
- 7 mountain bikers.
- 6 dogs.
This was middle of the day with super nice weather and a summer weekend. This is to provide some perspective as to where we fit in as a percentage of trail users. Answer: around the same as dogs.

Also, I decided I would try to be super polite and stop for every walker/runner I encountered. I got a lot of interesting reactions to this: several apologies, lots of "thank yous", and 2 actual conversations. One was from a 40-ish guy who was there with his wife and 2 kids who said "Wow, this is the first time in 4 years of coming here that a mountain biker did this." Yikes. The other was a woman who had just hiked up the water tower trail who asked me if mountain biking was allowed at the park. My first thought was that she was going to complain that it shouldn't be, but she actually said she wanted to come back with her family and ride there. (Also had bonus convo with @Meritt who was out there running!) I'll let you form your own takeaways from this info.

I don't get the purpose of the continual ranting and insulting of the Park people. Have you ever tried to contact them directly to have a constructive conversation? What are your ideas for how to fix things? I'm not talking about the "Let JORBA in." idea. Pick a problem section of the trail and tell us how you'd fix it.
 

wonderturtle

Well-Known Member
pat - my suggestion is simple. Park system sends 2 staff members to simply walk the trails ONCE a month during the summer with a pair of hedge clippers and cut back the overgrowth (starting in rocky point and Monmouth woods).

I’ll make it even easier. Let’s assume your estimate of 0.2 miles is correct (and let’s also assume it’s the same sections that get overgrown every summer). MCPS goes out and trims those 0.2 miles a few times a summer. 0.2 miles. MCPS - just do that. Don’t think thats asking much at all. They do that and I’ll just have to live with the unfixed erosion, the fallen trees that stay for months, etc

Even though I posted the one downed tree in Huber on Facebook (as a good example of one that stays on the trail with no attention and fwiw does more than just require “a 16” reroute” it completely kills your momentum at the foot of that steep little hill) you don’t hear me complaining about huber. It’s entirely passable (even the trailhead at the environmental center parking lot has miraculously stayed trimmed back this summer). But hartshorne is a different story. Just is.

FWIW the 0.2 mile figure is misleading. #1) I don’t think it’s accurate but even if it is... 2) having the trail be basically impassable in numerous places (even if it’s only 100 feet here or there) making many people double-back (if they don’t want to venture through tick land) is a problem.

If anything your 0.2 mile figure demonstrates the problem - sooo easy to fix with a pair of hedge clippers and just a few man hours
 
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TimBay

Well-Known Member
I did a full ride of both parks yesterday and decided I would try to objectively measure the problem areas. Out of 18.5 miles, there is about .2 miles of trail where you can't avoid the overgrowth touching your legs. The seriously eroded sections that people are griping about at Hartshorne add up to around .5 miles. This includes the section of Laurel Ridge that is currently taped off. This section was closed off years ago and illegally reopened by mountain bikers, so maybe shouldn't be included.

All of the trees/logs that were laying across the trail have been removed, including several that were easily rideable. Except for that one at Huber you posted on FB that's at an intersection that requires you to adjust your course by 16".

I also decided to do a rough count of the trail users I saw out there. Here's what I came up with:
- 33 encounters with hikers/runners, with an average group size of 3, so maybe close to 100 people total.
- 7 mountain bikers.
- 6 dogs.
This was middle of the day with super nice weather and a summer weekend. This is to provide some perspective as to where we fit in as a percentage of trail users. Answer: around the same as dogs.

Also, I decided I would try to be super polite and stop for every walker/runner I encountered. I got a lot of interesting reactions to this: several apologies, lots of "thank yous", and 2 actual conversations. One was from a 40-ish guy who was there with his wife and 2 kids who said "Wow, this is the first time in 4 years of coming here that a mountain biker did this." Yikes. The other was a woman who had just hiked up the water tower trail who asked me if mountain biking was allowed at the park. My first thought was that she was going to complain that it shouldn't be, but she actually said she wanted to come back with her family and ride there. (Also had bonus convo with @Meritt who was out there running!) I'll let you form your own takeaways from this info.

I don't get the purpose of the continual ranting and insulting of the Park people. Have you ever tried to contact them directly to have a constructive conversation? What are your ideas for how to fix things? I'm not talking about the "Let JORBA in." idea. Pick a problem section of the trail and tell us how you'd fix it.
I think people's biggest issue is being restricted from helping make the park better. The terrain has changed greatly over the years. While it's all pretty ride-able, it could definitely benefit from better maintenance and could be improved in a sustainable way. I'm hoping that we can work with the park to schedule additional TM sessions to do this. This would be for ALL users, not just us MTBers. I hope you'll join us and the MCPS in this effort.
 

SmooveP

Well-Known Member
I think people's biggest issue is being restricted from helping make the park better. The terrain has changed greatly over the years. While it's all pretty ride-able, it could definitely benefit from better maintenance and could be improved in a sustainable way. I'm hoping that we can work with the park to schedule additional TM sessions to do this. This would be for ALL users, not just us MTBers. I hope you'll join us and the MCPS in this effort.
I'm planning to make the next TM session. Have you reached out to the park people? Any response?
 

TimBay

Well-Known Member
I'm planning to make the next TM session. Have you reached out to the park people? Any response?
No response yet. Do you know when the next TM is? I lost my paper copy and dont see it on the site. We should definitely try to make more effort to attend thek as a community. Maybe sport your jorba socks, lol.
 

SmooveP

Well-Known Member
No response yet. Do you know when the next TM is? I lost my paper copy and dont see it on the site. We should definitely try to make more effort to attend thek as a community. Maybe sport your jorba socks, lol.
I just sent Tracy an email asking this. I'll post up if/when she replies.
 

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