Hartshorne/Huber Conditions

personally, I think its a dumb idea... I get that dogs off-leash are against there rules and there is a potential for danger there, but some passive aggressive snapping of pictures and posting on a wall of shame seems silly to me and only leads to hikers and other trail users creating their own thread/wall of shame where they post dumb MTB'ers doing illegal things.. It all just leads to further division of groups that should be together, united in gaining access and use to trails. That division will ultimately result in less use in the future and less access.

I get it, dogs off leash can be dangerous, but most of the people are just out to enjoy a walk and they don't realize... it is so much easier to just say, "hello, isn't it a great day to be out here. Oh what a beautiful dog, I didn't seem him and almost crashed. You might want to keep him on a leash so he doesn't get hurt. Have a great ay and enjoy your walk." We can just talk to each other like human's, no?
 

SmooveP

Well-Known Member
The park periodically does increased enforcement for off leash dogs. If a few people send them a (friendly) note, they may do it again. Maybe some sternly worded signage would help.
 
I posted this years ago but this is an issue everywhere. I've had off leash dogs jump on and chase me while running at the sourlands. One time a dog chased me a good mile plus, the stupid owners running and yelling for him/her to stop. I wasn't going to slow down or stop so these fools could get control of their dog - hopefully it taught them a lesson.
 

rmap01

Active Member
My <2 pennies: I totally get the frustration (and potential danger to both human and dog) of unleashed dogs on the trail. So many owners are clearly being irresponsible especially when they know that MTB'ers ride there (heck, we're on the cover now!) But FWIW, I wouldn't go any further than increased signage, at most. In so many places where we ride, I always get the feeling of being the unwanted trail user that many other trails users would like to ban. It doesn't help our cause when there are a few MTB outliers out there that completely flout the rules and appropriate etiquette. (Some of these people tick me off as much as the unleashed dog owners!) I, for one, wouldn't want to draw additional (negative) attention from other trail users that already have a hard-on for us and probably wield greater influence with the powers that be.
 
My <2 pennies: I totally get the frustration (and potential danger to both human and dog) of unleashed dogs on the trail. So many owners are clearly being irresponsible especially when they know that MTB'ers ride there (heck, we're on the cover now!) But FWIW, I wouldn't go any further than increased signage, at most. In so many places where we ride, I always get the feeling of being the unwanted trail user that many other trails users would like to ban. It doesn't help our cause when there are a few MTB outliers out there that completely flout the rules and appropriate etiquette. (Some of these people tick me off as much as the unleashed dog owners!) I, for one, wouldn't want to draw additional (negative) attention from other trail users that already have a hard-on for us and probably wield greater influence with the powers that be.
Well said.
 

Mitch

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
personally, I think its a dumb idea... I get that dogs off-leash are against there rules and there is a potential for danger there, but some passive aggressive snapping of pictures and posting on a wall of shame seems silly to me and only leads to hikers and other trail users creating their own thread/wall of shame where they post dumb MTB'ers doing illegal things.. It all just leads to further division of groups that should be together, united in gaining access and use to trails. That division will ultimately result in less use in the future and less access.

I get it, dogs off leash can be dangerous, but most of the people are just out to enjoy a walk and they don't realize... it is so much easier to just say, "hello, isn't it a great day to be out here. Oh what a beautiful dog, I didn't seem him and almost crashed. You might want to keep him on a leash so he doesn't get hurt. Have a great ay and enjoy your walk." We can just talk to each other like human's, no?
 

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Mitch

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
personally, I think its a dumb idea... I get that dogs off-leash are against there rules and there is a potential for danger there, but some passive aggressive snapping of pictures and posting on a wall of shame seems silly to me and only leads to hikers and other trail users creating their own thread/wall of shame where they post dumb MTB'ers doing illegal things.. It all just leads to further division of groups that should be together, united in gaining access and use to trails. That division will ultimately result in less use in the future and less access.

I get it, dogs off leash can be dangerous, but most of the people are just out to enjoy a walk and they don't realize... it is so much easier to just say, "hello, isn't it a great day to be out here. Oh what a beautiful dog, I didn't seem him and almost crashed. You might want to keep him on a leash so he doesn't get hurt. Have a great ay and enjoy your walk." We can just talk to each other like human's, no?
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rustynuts

Well-Known Member
I totally get not wanting mtb's to be looked upon poorly, but what's wrong is wrong and don't think we need to retreat just because we are afraid their going to outlaw mtb's on donated land.
 
I totally get not wanting mtb's to be looked upon poorly, but what's wrong is wrong and don't think we need to retreat just because we are afraid their going to outlaw mtb's on donated land.
I don't think anyone is suggesting retreat. Actually, what I'm suggesting is handling it directly, in person, politely, like a grown, sane, normal person.

Let's imagine for a minute if the shoe was on the other foot... what if someone on here came across a message board of hikers and trail runners and found a wall of shame featuring a photo of RustyNuts skidding his bike around a muddy trail that was supposed to be for hikers only. How would you react? If you knew you weren't supposed to be doing that and did it anyway, then you're likely to not even care, but if you didn't realize that was a hiker's only trail, you'd probably think, "why didn't the person just talk to me and let me know." I just feel like most people are just out to enjoy the trail and have fun, no one is going and thinking, "F**k those MTB'ers, I'm gonna let me dog off leash so he can chase them into trees." If we all just treat each other with respect, we all win.. creating some wall of shame doesn't do that.
 

Xler8

Well-Known Member
I totally get not wanting mtb's to be looked upon poorly, but what's wrong is wrong and don't think we need to retreat just because we are afraid their going to outlaw mtb's on donated land.
Sadly, the majority find MTB’ing wrong in the first place in a shared environment. We are the minority. No need to add fuel to the fire. Not to say that a retreat is necessary, however actions need to be executed with kid gloves.
 

ChrisG

Unapologetic Lifer for Rock and Roll
I rode Hartshorne/Huber this afternoon.

As I rounded a gentle corner on Rocky Point, I saw an off-leash dog walking toward me. I stopped and put a foot down, the dog slowed down to figure out what to do next, and at that point his owner caught up to him and attached the lease, while apologizing to me.

I told her it was fine, and then mentioned that I'd recently heard increasing complaints about off-leash dogs in the park. She agreed that off-leash dogs can present difficulties for other users, we thanked one another for taking the time to stop and talk, and went on our respective ways.
 
I was at Huber/Harts this morning with a buddy and we came across several dogs on the trail, maybe 4 or 5... only 1 was off-leash and as soon as he saw me, the dog sat on the side of the trail. The owner was maybe 50' behind on the trail.
 
To report on trail conditions... I didn't see any trees down, but I missed the laurel ridge loop because we had to get headed back to Huber to get home. I think that's where people were reporting the large tree down.
 

Tim

aka sptimmy43
I got out for a ride mid morning today. The trails are in great shape.

There are a couple things to note:
1. The water fountain at the rocky point lot near the trailhead has been winterized. I've been using this to reduce the amount of water I carry since it allowed for easy refilling of bottles but that is over until next year. If you have been doing the same you'll need to bring more bottles or a pack for longer rides.
2. Deer hunting is coming up and the park will be closed on a several mornings. Note the schedule is different than years past.
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Tim

aka sptimmy43
Oh and I encountered 17 dogs during the 61 minutes I was riding. 16 of them were off leash. Interestingly, the owner of the leashed dog also had another dog which was off leash. So with the limited sample size of dog owners encountered during my ride it seems as if 100% of dog owners seem to think it's ok to allow their dogs to roam free.
 
Oh and I encountered 17 dogs during the 61 minutes I was riding. 16 of them were off leash. Interestingly, the owner of the leashed dog also had another dog which was off leash. So with the limited sample size of dog owners encountered during my ride it seems as if 100% of dog owners seem to think it's ok to allow their dogs to roam free.
hahaha...
 
Did Cuesta and Laurel today. SLICK. Prime time leaves. give you confidence by convering thing up...then reminds you you arent that good!


First day I had to wear long johns of the season.

Going to try to ride rocky point tomorrow mid-day if work permits
 
1. The water fountain at the rocky point lot near the trailhead has been winterized. I've been using this to reduce the amount of water I carry since it allowed for easy refilling of bottles but that is over until next year. If you have been doing the same you'll need to bring more bottles or a pack for longer rides.
The bathroom is heated and still open, so you can get water there; however, the sinks are shallow so it's a challenge to get water into a tall bottle. They should have put a water fountain/bottle refilling station in there.
Did Cuesta and Laurel today. SLICK. Prime time leaves. give you confidence by convering thing up...then reminds you you arent that good!
Yeah, I had an "oh, crap" moment when I plowed into some deep sand disguised with leaves yesterday at Huber. Fortunately managed to save it. :D

On the unleashed dogs issue... I have no sympathy for folks with unleashed dogs after having been bitten on the arm and leg a few years back while the owner was doing nothing other than exclaiming "Don't worry, he won't hurt you." (not specifically at Hartshorne, but on another multi-use trail.)