wonderturtle
Well-Known Member
I think the OP needs to lighten up on the red bull
Does this make you angry too???
- Thread starter gingertooth
- Start date
Sadly, I see this at pretty much every park.
On one hand, as much as I love and always try (and usually clean😀) the technical challenges, I can see SOME value to having milder alternatives on some of the most gnarly sections for those that simply aren't game for the very difficult stuff. This keeps them interested in the sport and enables them to progress over time. After all, we were all newbies once.
On the other hand, what I DO have a problem with are the "shortcuts" riders make on average sections of trail. I see this at Lewis Morris all the time...riders "straightlining" through the twisties instead of riding the turns. Or avoiding roots by simply riding wider on the trails 😡. At Lew Mo we've tried laying down heavy branches and/or digging in some "chokes" (IMBA TCC term for heavy immovable objects, like rocks, strategically placed so that riders steer into the center of the trail), but I repeatedly find them moved. It's as if riders prefer wider trails. :hmmm:
No real solution comes to mind other than staying on top of it. Long live skinny trails.
On one hand, as much as I love and always try (and usually clean😀) the technical challenges, I can see SOME value to having milder alternatives on some of the most gnarly sections for those that simply aren't game for the very difficult stuff. This keeps them interested in the sport and enables them to progress over time. After all, we were all newbies once.
On the other hand, what I DO have a problem with are the "shortcuts" riders make on average sections of trail. I see this at Lewis Morris all the time...riders "straightlining" through the twisties instead of riding the turns. Or avoiding roots by simply riding wider on the trails 😡. At Lew Mo we've tried laying down heavy branches and/or digging in some "chokes" (IMBA TCC term for heavy immovable objects, like rocks, strategically placed so that riders steer into the center of the trail), but I repeatedly find them moved. It's as if riders prefer wider trails. :hmmm:
No real solution comes to mind other than staying on top of it. Long live skinny trails.
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
MikeP
Well-Known Member
Totally agree with this statement. It would be like only having 1 line thru a snowboard park. Features for different ability levels or a way around a huge rail slide etc. I do think go arounds pop up too often. IMO they should be there for more difficult skinnies or some harder elevated features. This feature at Ceres has a go around since its high off the ground.
Attachments
Last edited:
tonyride
Don't piss off the red guy
... and learn the difference between "your" and "you're". But seriously, I'm for promoting the sport. Doing so supports the local economy, strengthens the lobbying power of the sport, and encourages people to get out and exercise. I will never tell to mountain bike or discourage anyone from the sport. In fact I try to encourage it. However, I don't necessarily agree the trails should be watered down to a point where it is no longer challenging. I'm not saying all trails should be built to accommodate every rider but I think we can find a way to peacefully coexist on the parks. Not necessarily on the same trails but still in the same park. I guess what I'm saying is perhaps instead of "building up" a technical trail with rocks, logs, and armoring, we can build a go-around. This way the more technically advanced riders still have the challenging parts while the less advanced riders on the same trail can avoid it by going around it without having to get off their bikes.
One of the things that attracted me to mountain biking is the friendliness of fellow mountain bikers and the willingness to help out other fellow bikers. I always ask someone on the side of the trail if they need any help and I have given fellow riders my spare tubes, chain pin, and master links to stranded riders on more than one occasion because they needed them. I have also helped lost riders by guiding them out. I would hate to start seeing riders telling others to not ride because they're not as good as they are. Just sayin'.
Dusty the Whale
Mr.Chainsaw
this is serious stuff. you guys should be ashamed of poo'in on this thread so fast.
Its all crap. I'm 100% for letting the chips (trees) fall where they may. If you can't ride it, climb over it, go around it, fly over it, teleport past it or time travel back before it fell... . SELL YOUR BIKE YOU SUCK!!!! :getsome:
Lewis Morris is a great example of what can go right and wrong, all in one place over the last 10 or so years. The original trail work was great and really took advantage of what the park had to offer - speed and turns since there's not a rock over 3" in sight. Unfortunately, someone decided to tame some of the speed shots (more from pedal power than steepness so erosion was not an issue) with off camber tight turns. Fun factor started declining. On top of that, the trails have no natural boundaries so singletrack quickly becomes "wide". I've barely ridden there after the controlled burns as now a couple of twisties have been straightened for no reason and the place is just ugly. I have more fun at the Randolph trails (spent 2 hours maintaining this weekend).
In more technical parks like Mooch and Mahlon, there can be a "helpful" rock to many. Such aids can be removed easier than placed. Log builds don't bother me as you usually have an option to take or not.
dkocnj
Member
Cardiac Bypass (I think, trail off highest part of purple) at Allamuchy is a great example of this. 3 or 4 rock roll downs - one that probably spooks some - with optional bypasses that fit in naturally.
bradmcnutt
Member
Love these guys who shout out how hard core, big air, big balled, rad riders they are. Same guys riding downhill rigs in full gear tearing downhill, all pissed off. Not yielding to any other bikers, or worse, non biking trail users. You're not really that fast and believe me, you really didn't get any air.
Guys with this "ME" attitude. As soon as I'm finished w/this Hurricane Sandy BS clean-up, are why I'll continue to go deep in the woods, deep into the mountain, into the ocean, alone.
Enjoy your ride.
Guys with this "ME" attitude. As soon as I'm finished w/this Hurricane Sandy BS clean-up, are why I'll continue to go deep in the woods, deep into the mountain, into the ocean, alone.
Enjoy your ride.
^^^ Spot on. Did you ever notice at Lew Mo the narrowest trails are the ones where barberry is rampant? Those trails with barberry (such as red/orange south of the camp) have stayed narrow in the 8 years since we built that section. Riders know that straying from the path will mean some scratches and snags, so they they stay centered on the trail tread.
Unfortunately, the deer eat everything else in sight, other than the barberry, so most other trails have been victim to wandering riders. Lew Mo doesn't have the awesome fern/rhodie cover of Wawayanda, nor the natural rocky ledge-iness of Ringwood or Jungle. I suggested to the Park Commmission that we try to transplant barberry to keep things tight, but the arborist says it's an invasive and would not approve (forget about the fact that it's everywhere in the park 🙄)
Arwen's Mom
Mother of Dragons, Breaker of Chains
... I'm for promoting the sport. Doing so supports the local economy, strengthens the lobbying power of the sport, and encourages people to get out and exercise. I will never tell to mountain bike or discourage anyone from the sport. In fact I try to encourage it. However, I don't necessarily agree the trails should be watered down to a point where it is no longer challenging. I'm not saying all trails should be built to accommodate every rider but I think we can find a way to peacefully coexist on the parks. Not necessarily on the same trails but still in the same park. I guess what I'm saying is perhaps instead of "building up" a technical trail with rocks, logs, and armoring, we can build a go-around. This way the more technically advanced riders still have the challenging parts while the less advanced riders on the same trail can avoid it by going around it without having to get off their bikes.
One of the things that attracted me to mountain biking is the friendliness of fellow mountain bikers and the willingness to help out other fellow bikers. I always ask someone on the side of the trail if they need any help and I have given fellow riders my spare tubes, chain pin, and master links to stranded riders on more than one occasion because they needed them. I have also helped lost riders by guiding them out. I would hate to start seeing riders telling others to not ride because they're not as good as they are. Just sayin'.
^this
I dont think I can even peaceably comment to gingertooth at this time. I only hope I never meet you on the trails when you are laying there bleeding from some injury.
just sayin'
ok...wait...I will say this....you are a weinie. we were ALL beginners at one time. And what about older folks were were what you call "real" mountain bikers who maybe got injured and cant ride like they used to, do you really think they dont deserve to be on the trails? really? Whose tax dollars help pay for the upkeep of those parks? Really?
Look people I am all about challenging myself and becoming a better rider, but someone who is over 40 may not have the same inclination as someone under 40 or 30. We ALL have a right to ride in these parks. I love to try obstacle, but also believe there should be a go around for them. HOWEVER no one should take it upon themselves to build it, it should be done by the "trail crew". And what may seem like an insurmountable obstacle by some is not to others and that is where the problem lies, in perspective.
Gingertooth, you need to calm the f down and go try downhilling to get your juices flowing and realize there is a whole population out there that has a right to be there in the woods. Kids walking with their families, LITTLE kids, strollers, dogs on leashes, HORSES. What gives you the right? Most of these trails are MULTI USE which means they need to be safe enough for everyone.
Want some tech stuff? great, so do I, but having a choice is better. And not everyone want to hike a bike all the time.
What gives you the right to say who is and who isnt a REAL mountain biker anyway.
Grow up.
Oh and BITE ME!
liong71er
Well-Known Member
gingertooth,.
if you're saying what you are (a hardcore "singletrack" lover")
i'm gonna invite you "friendly challenge"
this week on sunday,if weather is nice or anytime when you're ready to do so..
let's go for a ride with me.
we ride from park to park (splitrock,mahlon,wawa,JH,ringwood,ramapo) probably around 90miles,and we start from my apartment door in clifton and back to clifton again.
i'm going to make you happy or suffer..
you'll get the taste what mtbiking is really about.(beside riding singletrack)
don't PM me...just post it here.
let's others know that you're up to this "friendly challenge"
but,,if you not response to my post.
then,we all know what you really are.
liong
if you're saying what you are (a hardcore "singletrack" lover")
i'm gonna invite you "friendly challenge"
this week on sunday,if weather is nice or anytime when you're ready to do so..
let's go for a ride with me.
we ride from park to park (splitrock,mahlon,wawa,JH,ringwood,ramapo) probably around 90miles,and we start from my apartment door in clifton and back to clifton again.
i'm going to make you happy or suffer..
you'll get the taste what mtbiking is really about.(beside riding singletrack)
don't PM me...just post it here.
let's others know that you're up to this "friendly challenge"
but,,if you not response to my post.
then,we all know what you really are.
liong
Timmyd
Member
I'd like to join you Liong, this sounds like fun. TimmyD
I was about to post that not many on this board could/would do the majority of Liong's rides. The man is hardcore. (and seems to have way more time to ride than most)
JerseyPete
Well-Known Member
I remember this discussion a while back. While I enjoy that reroute and appreciate the volunteer work put in, I think leaving the original in place would be a good option. From what I understand, that option was not available due to park regulations.
I am not a member of JORBA or any other group. Whether or not you like or agree with JORBA and its members, they are the legal face of mountain biking in NJ. I am just saying there is no choice on this. They have the park's approval.
As for the club/cult thing, you are correct, but that is typical of any forum.
To the OP, I agree with your point. If someone cannot handle certain parks trails, they should go to another park or walk the trail, rather than change the park to their skill level. You wouldn't go to Stowe and have the double diamonds changed to green because you paid your lift ticket and want it to accommodate your skills.
UnionRider475
Well-Known Member
I guess I understand his point . I don't think the ones commenting or having a gripe with him should be the beginners or the older , slower mtb'ers ( me ) .
The people chiming in and explaining themselves should be the ones who he has a problem with. The ones who are building things around the technical stuff that he speaks of . ( I guess ? )
The people chiming in and explaining themselves should be the ones who he has a problem with. The ones who are building things around the technical stuff that he speaks of . ( I guess ? )