Do You Have The Power!?

notwist said:
same thing happened with my SL+. I've only had it for 2 years and i now i have to send it in to get serviced. ill get it serviced but will be looking into a crank-based system in the future
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i would recommend doing it yourself or bring it to a good lbs willing to give it a go - 10bucks for bearings and 40bucks(ish) for labor leaves you with 300bucks for starting your "quarq fund". lots of info on the web/youtube about how to do it. 350 to saris is a terrible scam. sorry im still so angry at them.
 
Hmmm i had assumed that one of the Saris parts broke and can only be replaced by them. I'll search around to see if anyone can undertake fixing it.
 
I've owned all of the power meters available up to this point and I like the Quarq the best. For me it's just as easy to swap between bikes as my PowerTap wheels. Love the fact that I can now ride any pair of wheels I want. I swap wheels all the time it would seem and not needing 3 or 4 PowerTap wheelsets has been a blessing. The jump to a Quarq from a G3 hub is minor so I feel it's a no brainer to go with the Quarq.

The other thing I've been super impressed with is that stupid $100 PowerCal. That thing is as accurate as any power meter I've ever owned for 5-minute power and longer. Under 5-minutes it's a bit dodgy but my overall average and NP are always within a few watts of the Quarq or PowerTap. It's a great little piece of gear. And it's a HR strap so it's really only $40 more for power...

-Jim.
 
Delish said:
do TARWAPM sons and daughters.
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Or better yet, attend one of Hunter's clinics when he comes to town. I did his 2-day class in Princeton a few years back and it was the best thing I've ever done...

-Jim.
 
notwist said:
Hmmm i had assumed that one of the Saris parts broke and can only be replaced by them. I'll search around to see if anyone can undertake fixing it.
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no its usually just a typical bearing - non-drive side for mine was 6802 - i think that's the one that typical fails. if you have any question about which one your is, type powertap bearing replacement into a web search - lots of info out there on this. that or when you get the non-drive bearing tapped out, just take the failed bearing into a bearing shop and they can size it up.
 
Delish said:
I've heard the argument that all you need is precision, not accuary and precision with a PM but I don't necessarily buy it. Sure it's fine if you only ever use one PM but as Smith points out, what happens when it breaks or you change to a different model? Now all the numbers you use to base your workouts are off and there's no way to benchmark from season to season.

Well, you are right, the precision over accuracy and precision argument does fall apart when you want to compare long term progress (and you have data from more than one PM, by choice or by exchange). Last year was my first full year with power and I'm bummed I can't actually determine how what I am going to do this year will compare to my plan from last year (ftp wise). I usually do my testing over the same section of road, which is how I know the old and new power meters are giving different numbers for roughly the same level of fitness (I can look at ave speed and distance covered). For now I'm going with the precision argument because I don't want to spring for a new powermeter right now (base can be largely done using HR anyhow).
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I just saw on chainlove.com the CYCLEOPS POWERTAP G3 WIRELESS HUB for $845. Although I paid less than that for the alloy wheelset w/ G3 hub.
 
After training with a power meter (I have the quarq), I can't imagine ever going without it. There really is no better way to train than with a power meter.

However, you really need some context to get the best out of it.
When I say 'context', I don't mean comparing your numbers to another person's. There are too many variables involved for that to make sense.

You need to do an FTP test. Then set up your training plan based off of those numbers.
Thankfully, I have Ben Tufford as a coach, so he analyzes all the data for me.

But before I did the FTP test, I had no idea what the numbers meant.
And, to be perfectly honest, I didn't get the most benefit until I had a few FTP tests under my belt. At that point, I really had a good feel for how to use the data.
 
Since I've now been mentioned a couple times in this thread, I'm going to stop lurking. I have numerous power meters. I use them and lend them to my clients regularly. I often have troble remembering who has them. I currently use three and have at least 5 out for assignment.

All but one are PowerTaps. The oddball is a Quarq on my road bike. I have two PowerTap G3 hubs while the others are the previous generation. All are built on random rims built primarily for training.

I have not found the holly grail of power meters. Each has pros and cons. Those cons can often be significant. I have had to ship the older PowerTap wheels back numerous times. That leaves you with no wheel for up to a month. OTOH, they always come back with new internals and freehub body. Not Bad.

The G3 hubs have random issues and the only fix I've heard is to remove the battery, wait five minutes, and put battery back in. That apparently resets the hub and you are usually good to go.

The crank-based is most trouble-free but is dedicated to a bike and only compatible with similar bottom brackets. It is also more expensive. The recalibrating when switching chain rings is a major bummer. Glad the new Quarqs have resolved that.

I have read the generic reviews of the Stages meter. I like what I read and may consider one.

Regarding training with power, I'll just say that it provides real, usable data. Although you do have to understand how to use the data. Otherwise, it is a very expensive toy. A PM doesn't make you faster. It allows you to train smarter and more precisely. You still have to do the work.

For a coach, the PM is awesome. I can dig in and see exactly what is going on. It brings a level of accountability to the coach/athlete relationship. Unfortunately, for my clients, I know when they are slackin. ;)
 
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With all of this power meter talk if figured i would bring this up. I have a wired cannondale SRM for sale if anyone is interested. BB30 with 172.5 crankarms
 
A question for those of you training with power. I've been training with "pseudo-power" using trainerroad.com (highly recommended, makes indoor riding nearly tolerable) and a Kurt Kinetic. The idea being that you use the trainer's power curve as a function of speed to imitate an actual power meter. I don't have all that much faith in the actual values but it does seem to be pretty repeatable.

My actual question relates to heart rate vs FTP. The trainer rides that I've been doing involve intervals generally between 80% and 110% of FTP (mainly sweet spot training). For a 3 minute interval at 110% my heart rate will be pretty darned close to the max that I'll see riding outdoors. For a longer interval of perhaps 8 minutes at 90% I'll see lower numbers, but still pretty high. I do think that my FTP value is set appropriately because I can imagine riding at it for an hour (originally set using the 8 minute test protocol).

I'd generally expect the 90% efforts to be at a significantly lower heart rate. I can suffer through it, but when I look at my ride after I'm spending a huge portion of my time in the VO2 max heart rate range and relatively little at tempo/sweet spot/threshold. Lack of aerobic base?

I'm wondering if I should back off on my power targets to get my heart rate down or continue pushing as I currently am. I know that much of the answer is going to depend on my training goals at this part of the season, which is primarily going to be raise sustainable power (as a skinny guy, this tends to be my weakness) and put myself slightly less behind the 8 ball once the outdoor season really kicks off for me in the next month.
 
ebarker9 said:
My actual question relates to heart rate vs FTP. The trainer rides that I've been doing involve intervals generally between 80% and 110% of FTP (mainly sweet spot training). For a 3 minute interval at 110% my heart rate will be pretty darned close to the max that I'll see riding outdoors. For a longer interval of perhaps 8 minutes at 90% I'll see lower numbers, but still pretty high. I do think that my FTP value is set appropriately because I can imagine riding at it for an hour (originally set using the 8 minute test protocol).

I'd generally expect the 90% efforts to be at a significantly lower heart rate. I can suffer through it, but when I look at my ride after I'm spending a huge portion of my time in the VO2 max heart rate range and relatively little at tempo/sweet spot/threshold. Lack of aerobic base?
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If your training with power I'd pretty much ignore whats going on with your HR. As long as you can get through your workouts and are hitting the power numbers to stay in a prescribed zone, then who cares about HR. Thats why training with power is so much better. Power output data is consistent, your hr is not.
Like others have said use a fan to stay cool. If you want to train with power on the road look into getting a power tap. I just picked one up used and like training with this much better then relying on HR feedback.
 
pooriggy said:
If your training with power I'd pretty much ignore whats going on with your HR. As long as you can get through your workouts and are hitting the power numbers to stay in a prescribed zone, then who cares about HR. Thats why training with power is so much better. Power output data is consistent, your hr is not.
Like others have said use a fan to stay cool. If you want to train with power on the road look into getting a power tap. I just picked one up used and like training with this much better then relying on HR feedback.
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That's pretty much what I've been doing. Just wondering what, if any, correlation there should be. Obviously heart rate is going to be impacted by a number of factors on a day-to-day basis, but as a general trend hopefully it goes down with training for a given power level.

I'm still keeping my eyes open for a deal on a powertap. I'm not sure how rigidly I'll adhere to a set training plan outside this year, but I think it would be really interesting to track progress.
 
ebarker9 said:
A question for those of you training with power. I've been training with "pseudo-power" using trainerroad.com (highly recommended, makes indoor riding nearly tolerable) and a Kurt Kinetic. The idea being that you use the trainer's power curve as a function of speed to imitate an actual power meter. I don't have all that much faith in the actual values but it does seem to be pretty repeatable.

My actual question relates to heart rate vs FTP. The trainer rides that I've been doing involve intervals generally between 80% and 110% of FTP (mainly sweet spot training). For a 3 minute interval at 110% my heart rate will be pretty darned close to the max that I'll see riding outdoors. For a longer interval of perhaps 8 minutes at 90% I'll see lower numbers, but still pretty high. I do think that my FTP value is set appropriately because I can imagine riding at it for an hour (originally set using the 8 minute test protocol).

I'd generally expect the 90% efforts to be at a significantly lower heart rate. I can suffer through it, but when I look at my ride after I'm spending a huge portion of my time in the VO2 max heart rate range and relatively little at tempo/sweet spot/threshold. Lack of aerobic base?

I'm wondering if I should back off on my power targets to get my heart rate down or continue pushing as I currently am. I know that much of the answer is going to depend on my training goals at this part of the season, which is primarily going to be raise sustainable power (as a skinny guy, this tends to be my weakness) and put myself slightly less behind the 8 ball once the outdoor season really kicks off for me in the next month.
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Ah, erg, well...I think there's a big difference between inside versus outside.

Inside: throw out any hr-to-power correlation, IMO.

Outside: I think it's a good thing to correlate the 2 and see how they work with/against each other at times. Many of us have more than 1 bike and race on more than 1 bike. Last year I raced on 5 bikes, 2 of which had PMs. So knowing what your HR does as a correlation to power (and a non-correlation) is not a bad thing. HR is reactive but it reacts to something, and that something is much more accurately measured with power. So when you race without power, having the HR data in your head can give you a delayed feedback that something you just did may not be a good idea.
 
More questions about training with power inside

So, for what I've read it's better to do the FTP test outside since it should yield a more accurate (and higher?) max power number.

1- What happens then if you do all your training with that bike/wheel but in a trainer? Do you need to make any corrections, re-calibrations or anything like that if you want to train at a % of the max value measured outside?


2- If I'm planning to do all my power training in a trainer, is it better to buy a wheel with a Powertap or a trainer like the Cycleops Powerbeam pro? Both are more or less the same price but on this trainer you can program (or set on the fly) exact levels of power. For me it would solve two problems at once since I got my trainer 8 years ago (used) and it's completely shot (I can't even step on the pedals on the the hardest gear b/c it doesn't have enough resistance).


3- All Powertap rear wheels seem to come with a hub for 10-speed cassettes and my (old) road bike is 9-speed. Can I put a rear wheel w/ a Powertap & 10-speed cassette and adjust the shifters (SRAM 105, I think) to use only 9 of the cogs in the cassette?

Thanks!
 
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