Cars, it's electric! Do Do Do

here is something intersting. I havent seen this comparison made in any more of an apples to apples comparison

That white paper needs a non-dork marketing person to touch it up. They at least had someone pretty up the document.

TL:DR? I'm assuming it's about the fact that there's a lot that goes into the car outside of of the pollution it generates burning a fuel including where the materials come from as far as shipping, destruction of the environment for mining minerals/materials, benefits of increased life cycles, etc etc?
 
That white paper needs a non-dork marketing person to touch it up. They at least had someone pretty up the document.

TL:DR? I'm assuming it's about the fact that there's a lot that goes into the car outside of of the pollution it generates burning a fuel including where the materials come from as far as shipping, destruction of the environment for mining minerals/materials, benefits of increased life cycles, etc etc?
How do you accurately measure a manufactured product carbon footprint? You can start by looking at the machine wattage used to manufacture the parts for a V8, I4 and a Wankel and compare that accurately vs an EV motor. But how do you measure the diesel burned for transport and refining of raw materials? By the ton, and type of process used?
 
How do you accurately measure a manufactured product carbon footprint? You can start by looking at the machine wattage used to manufacture the parts for a V8, I4 and a Wankel and compare that accurately vs an EV motor. But how do you measure the diesel burned for transport and refining of raw materials? By the ton, and type of process used?
It isn't easy, but yes. For instance if a car sold in NJ has a Lithium based battery in it you'd track it all the way from digging it out of the earth wherever that is and figure out how much pollution etc it take to get it to the production facility where it gets combined with other parts, then track that larger assembly along the whole path. Then you'll know what it took to get it to the sales point.

Then it's the amount of pollution/waste during it's life cycle.

Now that we're seeing batteries last for a long time and the other common failure points not existing on electric cars (gas engines, transmissions) the life cycles will be longer minimizing that aspect.

And even if you look into all these things you have to make comparisons. For instance we may mine a mineral on the other side of the planet that pollutes a river, but it goes into an electric car which removes particulates in the air here...
 
here is something intersting. I havent seen this comparison made in any more of an apples to apples comparison

Not sure I read the results correctly, but looks like the petrol car requires a smaller carbon footprint to build.

Does an electric car battery charge lowers over time if not used? I did not read the report but if so, would that be taken into consideration?
 
Not sure I read the results correctly, but looks like the petrol car requires a smaller carbon footprint to build.

Does an electric car battery charge lowers over time if not used? I did not read the report but if so, would that be taken into consideration?

yes an ICE vehicle produces less carbon emissions to be produced, and the electric is less in operation. this is comparing how many miles need to be driven for them to produce equal amounts. if you are doing it 'for the environment' leasing an EV is NOT saving carbon emissions. (<36k miles, assuming an average mix of energy supplied)

It isn't easy, but yes. For instance if a car sold in NJ has a Lithium based battery in it you'd track it all the way from digging it out of the earth wherever that is and figure out how much pollution etc it take to get it to the production facility where it gets combined with other parts, then track that larger assembly along the whole path. Then you'll know what it took to get it to the sales point.

Then it's the amount of pollution/waste during it's life cycle.

Now that we're seeing batteries last for a long time and the other common failure points not existing on electric cars (gas engines, transmissions) the life cycles will be longer minimizing that aspect.

And even if you look into all these things you have to make comparisons. For instance we may mine a mineral on the other side of the planet that pollutes a river, but it goes into an electric car which removes particulates in the air here...

Batteries last a longer time now, but im still not convinced that they outlast an engine/transmission which is maintained to any degree. You dont hear about too many engine failures in modern cars (200k+ is very common for an engine and transmission these days. Not sure what the mileage lifespan is for the battery pack, but iirc this study doesnt use battery replacement as a factor in the overall emissions.

If i read it correctly this study is only looking at carbon emissions, not taking into account any other pollution byproducts of mining the minerals for batteries or any other electronics in the cars (on both sides of the line)
 
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yes an ICE vehicle produces less carbon emissions to be produced, and the electric is less in operation. this is comparing how many miles need to be driven for them to produce equal amounts. if you are doing it 'for the environment' leasing an EV is NOT saving carbon emissions. (<36k miles, assuming an average mix of energy supplied)



Batteries last a longer time now, but im still not convinced that they outlast an engine/transmission which is maintained to any degree. You dont hear about too many engine failures in modern cars (200k+ is very common for an engine and transmission these days. Not sure what the mileage lifespan is for the battery pack, but iirc this study doesnt use battery replacement as a factor in the overall emissions.

If i read it correctly this study is only looking at carbon emissions, not taking into account any other pollution byproducts of mining the minerals for batteries or any other electronics in the cars (on both sides of the line)
Apparently an overlooked factor is the additional wear of the tires due to the extra weight of the battery (are they lasting longer because they’re bigger maybe). Both expensive and polluting (more then the equivalent pollution produced by an equivalent lighter petrol car). Came out of a university research in England.
 
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It isn't easy, but yes. For instance if a car sold in NJ has a Lithium based battery in it you'd track it all the way from digging it out of the earth wherever that is and figure out how much pollution etc it take to get it to the production facility where it gets combined with other parts, then track that larger assembly along the whole path. Then you'll know what it took to get it to the sales point.

Then it's the amount of pollution/waste during it's life cycle.

Now that we're seeing batteries last for a long time and the other common failure points not existing on electric cars (gas engines, transmissions) the life cycles will be longer minimizing that aspect.

And even if you look into all these things you have to make comparisons. For instance we may mine a mineral on the other side of the planet that pollutes a river, but it goes into an electric car which removes particulates in the air here...
And they then put that carbon value/number against the product lifetime? Do they consider that some consumers look at cars as throw away expense and the car may not hit the maximum miles before recycled?
I think the consumer end of how long a car is used before junked can be found through state registration, but the EV market is too new to really tell how long people are holding onto them.
 
Interesting behavior study:

@THATmanMANNY can you confirm:
“These findings include an analysis of Tesla drivers who also operate another vehicle. These drivers are nearly 50% less likely to crash while driving their Tesla than any other vehicle they operate. We conducted the same analysis on individuals who operate a Porsche and another vehicle. In this case, we observed the opposite effect. Porsche drivers are 55% more likely to crash while driving their Porsche compared to their other vehicle.”
 
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Interesting behavior study:

@THATmanMANNY can you confirm:
“These findings include an analysis of Tesla drivers who also operate another vehicle. These drivers are nearly 50% less likely to crash while driving their Tesla than any other vehicle they operate. We conducted the same analysis on individuals who operate a Porsche and another vehicle. In this case, we observed the opposite effect. Porsche drivers are 55% more likely to crash while driving their Porsche compared to their other vehicle.”
A Tesla will brake itself to avoid a collision. It’s nearly impossible to hit a large object head on. A cat would be toast, but won’t hit another car.
 
55% more likely to crash while driving their Porsche compared to their other vehicle.

so electrify the boxster for a net zero?

----

I like the centralization of tasks with EV. Batteries are produced "at one place" - so efforts to minimize can be adhered to.
electricity is produced "at one place" using some method (might have zero carbon footprint in the future) - and impact can be minimized.
even burning "gas" to produce electricity to produce motion might be more environ friendly than the distributed burning of gas
to produce motion.

lots to think about. there is no moore's law for batteries. and the production of electricity has been optimized with current tech.

where is the next breakthrough?

aside from loud speakers so you think you are going faster in your ICE.
 
I don't want to get into an accident/crash in any car!
Admittingly, I am a multi tasking driver especially on assisted driving modes but when I have others in the car I am not doing such things.

My wife has PTSD from a near head one crash from last week. She said the other driver was headed her way in her lane and she swerved and missed by inches. She said no alarms came on or any auto recordings which is surprising given the jerk reaction to save the crash.
 
I could get used to this view but probably not the steering inputs. OTOH I think Toyota is working on this style with better steering ratios

Brought the X in for yellow border screen. Service tried to tell me the UV light fix for $40 won’t improve it much or at all and Rec a new $900 screen that would most likely do the same. Based results I’ve seen on forums, I said no thanks, do the $40 fix anyways. Voila screen is bettered.
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The $4k NJ incentive is back, coupled with the Federal and sales tax deduction, I'm jumping on the band wagon soon
It was 5k when we got it, literally the month before it ended. Edit: and it was for cars under $55k. Looks like that was lowered to under $45k. And $2k rebate for $45k to$50k. Our model Y was just shy of $55k, and they've gotten way more expensive since then. Does Tesla even make a car that would qualify now?
 
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