BWR womens winner is a guy…What a bunch of horse isshh

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rick81721 said:
So you completely ignored the fundamental, biological unfairness. Feel free to keep defending this entitled, unfair jerk.
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Not ignoring anything. I fully understand the situation and your position. I probably even agree that the rules need to be modified. I just don't agree that someone entering an event under the current rules that were specifically crafted to govern their participation is a jerk. It's up to the governing bodies to determine "fairness" in competition and currently, for this event, those were the rules that covered what was and wasn't fair.
 
Patrick said:
I'm officiating girls discus tomorrow, stop by and say hello.

FTR I agree with the WA policy.
There are many people trying to sort this out. It's their job. Great biological female athletes are going to leave the USA because of current policy.
This doesn't mean I'm dismissing a community of people.
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If I get a second to step away from playing coach and sports psychologist, I'll pop by. I'll look for Vin Diesel.

We don't want to dismiss anyone, but we also have to face reality and be fair. We should respect everyone for who they are, but when it comes to competition the rules need to be based on science and facts, not politics and public opinion. I have friends who are trans and I have this debate with them all the time. There are sacrifices and consequences we all make in life to be happy and fulfilled. Trans athletes will have an advantage over the biological woman in every sport where speed and strength are key factors, especially sports that involve hip/legs. Hormones and surgery can't erase that. A separate category is the logical and fair resolution to this whole thing.
 
ebarker9 said:
Not ignoring anything. I fully understand the situation and your position. I probably even agree that the rules need to be modified. I just don't agree that someone entering an event under the current rules that were specifically crafted to govern their participation is a jerk. It's up to the governing bodies to determine "fairness" in competition and currently, for this event, those were the rules that covered what was and wasn't fair.
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And that's the problem. Entitled people believe fairness isn't their concern. They take no personal responsibility. If the rules say biological males can compete unfairly against women, entitled jerks will do it. A person with a moral compass will say no. It's the same concept with people in cities stealing hundreds of dollars of merchandise from stores because they are entitled jerks and know the store won't stop them and they won't get prosecuted.
 
Patrick said:
This doesn't mean I'm dismissing a community of people.
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Pat, sorry I mean Pam, how is anyone getting dismissed? If there was a rule that said biological males identifying as female can't compete with biological males (or compete at all), you would have a point.
 
rick81721 said:
Pat, sorry I mean Pam, how is anyone getting dismissed? If there was a rule that said biological males identifying as female can't compete with biological males (or compete at all), you would have a point.
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I recognize the community of transgender people and their collective challenges from people that can't really understand she is a she, he is a he.
And maybe a they, it that is what they choose. It is up to the sport to define the rules where one can compete.

as an interesting aside, I'm officiating the unified chaionship meet today -
Classes of athletes that are paired fairly so they can compete.
Looking into para also.
 
Patrick said:
I recognize the community of transgender people and their collective challenges from people that can't really understand she is a she, he is a he.
And maybe a they, it that is what they choose. It is up to the sport to define the rules where one can compete.

as an interesting aside, I'm officiating the unified chaionship meet today -
Classes of athletes that are paired fairly so they can compete.
Looking into para also.
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You didn't answer the question and no one is not recognizing the transgender community. It's a simple issue of fairness - everyone is free to compete fairly if they choose. But some want gender identity to supercede fairness in sports competition, which is inherently wrong.
 
rick81721 said:
And that's the problem. Entitled people believe fairness isn't their concern. They take no personal responsibility. If the rules say biological males can compete unfairly against women, entitled jerks will do it. A person with a moral compass will say no. It's the same concept with people in cities stealing hundreds of dollars of merchandise from stores because they are entitled jerks and know the store won't stop them and they won't get prosecuted.
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I get that you believe that there's a higher moral obligation there that outweighs the rules of the events. I just don't think that it's on the athlete to decide that the rules are wrong. The rules were created based on a process that looked into the various factors that have been mentioned (testosterone levels etc) and reached a certain conclusion. That process and conclusion may well have been faulty, but I don't assign blame to the athlete who isn't going "I've done my own research and I disagree with the scientists saying that it's fair for me to compete".

I certainly don't see the parallel to people breaking laws and not being prosecuted. That would be more like an athlete who wasn't in compliance with the rules of the event but knew that they weren't being enforced and decided to take advantage of that.
 
rick81721 said:
And that's the problem. Entitled people believe fairness isn't their concern. They take no personal responsibility. If the rules say biological males can compete unfairly against women, entitled jerks will do it. A person with a moral compass will say no. It's the same concept with people in cities stealing hundreds of dollars of merchandise from stores because they are entitled jerks and know the store won't stop them and they won't get prosecuted.
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I don't disagree that people should, in general, have some sort of moral compass that should guide them to make responsible and fair decisions. But you seem to be suggesting that every trans or non binary person is incapable of having said moral compass. Which is no more fair, than this particular athlete deciding to compete in this event. So, is your real issue with this particular athlete doing something you think unfair ? Or with trans, non binary people in general ?
 
The Kalmyk said:
in other words… Im cool with cheating until the system catches up.


That’s exactly what it is… cheating
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In other words...no.

I don't believe that there's a moral obligation for the athlete to reach a different scientific conclusion than the people who investigated this to create the rules in the first place.
 
ebarker9 said:
In other words...no.

I don't believe that there's a moral obligation for the athlete to reach a different scientific conclusion than the people who investigated this to create the rules in the first place.
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Just the fact that it must be defended is evidence enough… A cheat
 
I'm curious, do any of you commenting on this situation truly have any skin in the game ? Because unless you have a female spouse, or child, who competes, or are a woman yourself, what exactly is the point of you complaining. Do you truly care about the fairness of female sport ? Or is this just another place for you to insert your own political or religious beliefs ? And honestly, where are comments from the women competitors ? They are the group who are truly affected, and so far most the comments are from men. Im sure they are concerned about being flamed for their honest opinions, and that's shamefully unfair. But no progress comes without sacrifice and risk, and without input from actual woman competitors, how can anyone know how they feel about competing against trans athletes. And in the end, it's the biological female athletes, for whom the classes were created, who's voice should be heard. NOT a bunch of biological males, who's opinions on the matter should carry little weight.
 
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mtbiker87 said:
I'm curious, do any of you commenting on this situation truly have any skin in the game ? Because unless you have a female spouse, or child, who competes, or are a woman yourself, what exactly is the point of you complaining. Do you truly care about the fairness of female sport ? Or is this just another place for you to insert your own political or religious beliefs ? And honestly, where are comments from the women competitors ? They are the group who are truly affected, and so far most the comments are from men. Im sure they are concerned about being flamed for their honest opinions, and that's shamefully unfair. But no progress comes without sacrifice and risk, and without input from actual woman competitors, how can anyone know how they feel about competing against trans athletes. And in the end, it's the biological female athletes, for whom the classes were created, who's voice should be heard. NOT a bunch of biological males, who's opinions on the matter should carry little weight.
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My wife does triathlons and she is horrified by this.
 
mtbiker87 said:
I'm curious, do any of you commenting on this situation truly have any skin in the game ? Because unless you have a female spouse, or child, who competes, or are a woman yourself, what exactly is the point of you complaining. Do you truly care about the fairness of female sport ? Or is this just another place for you to insert your own political or religious beliefs ? And honestly, where are comments from the women competitors ? They are the group who are truly affected, and so far most the comments are from men. Im sure they are concerned about being flamed for their honest opinions, and that's shamefully unfair. But no progress comes without sacrifice and risk, and without input from actual woman competitors, how can anyone know how they feel about competing against trans athletes. And in the end, it's the biological female athletes, for whom the classes were created, whose voice should be heard. NOT a bunch of biological males, whose opinions on the matter should carry little weight.
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I misfired with the thumbs up…I didn’t mean that!
But it’s imperative for women on this forum to post their opinions …. Not just the men!
But it’s unfair to all biological women!
 
ebarker9 said:
Do you honestly believe that these are equivalent things? A person saying "Hey, I'd appreciate if you could call me she/her because I'm more comfortable with that" and "I am the King of Earth, bow down before me"? I just don't understand why it's such a huge problem to be respectful of a person's wishes.
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They are both equally ridiculous, yes,
 
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