rick81721
Lothar
I have no idea what point you are trying to make. You are describing the issue in this thread. Being a biological male makes it unfair and wrong.
BWR womens winner is a guy…What a bunch of horse isshh
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I have no idea what point you are trying to make. You are describing the issue in this thread. Being a biological male makes it unfair and wrong.
I think that this is an important topic and throughout this thread I've mainly tried to emphasize a level of compassion for all people involved and a focus on research in this area and application to the rules. I'd again come back to a person who contributed here to refer to a trans person as "it" and the original post suggesting that the athlete in question is "disgusting". Can't we just fucking be nice?
You've also continued to twist my words and then accuse me of "spin". There is absolutely no logical extension of "the athlete does not have a moral obligation to second guess the scientists involved in the rule writing" to "biological males that went through puberty as a male have no advantage over women". That is obviously not what I said and you know this.
you assert they are "claiming trans" to intentionally gain an unfair advantage.
I don't believe that is so -
since you can not even consider separating gender from biology,
it will be impossible for you to move beyond your current position.
I did not make any attempt to label it fair or unfair.
Wrong is a label that comes from inside you, and is purely opinion.
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I want to preface my next statement that I believe males should not compete in women’s leagues.
So here in lies the ridiculousness of this entire debate: I am anti-transgender simply because of my first statement. As if I want to see a transgender physically or mentally hurt. I do not and I believe in a free society and what that entails. This view, which is often the projected view of those who disagree is asinine (…and dramatic to state my case). Simply put those who disagree are AUTOMATICALLY labeled as the “anti” crowd. And when placed into the “anti” crowd , you automatically are against or “anti” the moral, body, religious, gender, race, status, etc, etc of the person or people in which you disagree with…
It’s becoming very difficult to have an earnest and candid conversation these days. I have my beliefs and convictions but I am not a “bad” guy because of that. Neither are the people who have opposite views such as my self HOWEVER I am still the bad guy…. I will never be able to rid myself of the Scarlet letter(s): ANTI…this country is in a bad way.
So here in lies the ridiculousness of this entire debate: I am anti-transgender simply because of my first statement. As if I want to see a transgender physically or mentally hurt. I do not and I believe in a free society and what that entails. This view, which is often the projected view of those who disagree is asinine (…and dramatic to state my case). Simply put those who disagree are AUTOMATICALLY labeled as the “anti” crowd. And when placed into the “anti” crowd , you automatically are against or “anti” the moral, body, religious, gender, race, status, etc, etc of the person or people in which you disagree with…
It’s becoming very difficult to have an earnest and candid conversation these days. I have my beliefs and convictions but I am not a “bad” guy because of that. Neither are the people who have opposite views such as my self HOWEVER I am still the bad guy…. I will never be able to rid myself of the Scarlet letter(s): ANTI…this country is in a bad way.
Some people want to discuss this, some people want to just argue for argument's sake.
One of the best pieces of advise I've heard is "Never try to reason someone out of an opinion they didn't reason themselves into."
I don't think most people would find your opinion bigoted whatsoever. It's a wildly complex issue that I'm quite thankful my opinion doesn't matter. Sometimes "I don't know" is a perfectly valid response too.
That said, I firmly believe being disrespectful to other humans by calling them by the wrong pronouns is just an asshole thing to do and a shitty way to start the conversation. Just be decent to each other, the world sucks enough.
"The Alliance Defending Freedom, formerly the Alliance Defense Fund, is an American conservative Christian legal advocacy group that works to expand Christian practices within public schools and in government, to outlaw abortion, and to curtail rights for LGBTQ people. Wikipedia"
Pretty hard to take the stance that this is purely about sporting fairness and then cite an organization that does things like this:
"In Europe, ADF International has supported mandatory genital surgery and sterilization of transgender people before they are allowed to change the gender marker on government IDs.[27]"
dude..seriously? that's a fucking hate group, straight up.
sundaydoug
Well-Known Member
We're almost there and it seems like this train wreck is just getting started.
I would like to share a very personal story to illustrate the reverse side of your last paragraph. I agree much of what you said…
I was at a family member’s funeral, standing approximately 15 feet from the casket. Another family member, who is in the process of changing genders walks away, and I am standing next to the husband of said family member. Truth be told I don’t care for him at all, BUT I am ALWAYS cordial and polite out of respect for my family. I was very close with the family member that walked away.
Someone asks, “where did so and so go (using the correct name)?” I respond with the incorrect pronoun, maybe he/she went to the bathroom? I didn’t use the incorrect on purpose, to be a jerk, to be an asshole, to be provocative, to be a religious zealot, to be a right winger, to be anti-transgender, etc etc. it rolled naturally off my tongue like: What tires do you use? Vigilante. What’s your favorite brand of drivetrain? Shimano. Meaning naturally, auto response.
The husband then proceeds to berate (not many people could not hear what was going on) me as if I did it on purpose. I got real real angry and told him I have known my family member for over 40 years as a certain gender. I publicly told him to get off his moral soap box for a simple MISTAKE (wrong, right, or otherwise). So I ask, was this scene necessary? At a funeral? (Not directed at you in particular @Cassinonorth with all due respect). Yet my some in my family made me out to be the devil himself.
Do I deserve empathy? That word was used a lot at the beginning of the thread and I got shown NONE for a simply mistake. Why no empathy…because I am the bad guy AKA the “anti” guy. It does not bother me in the least and I truly don’t need or want empathy. I can’t change those views or reasoning…. Too many double standards in this debate as a whole…
You made a mistake. They over-reacted. Others here (and everywhere else) do it on purpose. Being that it was at a funeral, I'm sure emotions were already high, and it wasn't the time for the discussion that followed. I'd hope that afterwards, in a calm way, you and "someone" were able to have a mature conversation.....
Of course you deserve empathy in that situation and I'd like to think that those who are going to make a huge deal out of that are in a significant minority. Actually, I'm confident that the number of people who would react in that way is in a significant minority, though it may not appear that way because most of this discussion is online where all things are amplified 1000x.
I absolutely agree that it’s a significant minority but they are the ONLY ones holding that microphone at the moment IMHO…
Zack 54
Well-Known Member
And from the tone of your reply you have no hate!?
Plenty of hate.
Not the full list, and not saying you are any, but…
I hate racists
I hate bigots
I hate onions
I hate mattresses that are too firm.
JDurk
Well-Known Member
I'll only disagree with your hate for onions and firm mattresses.
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