Build a better mousetrap.

ryderX

Well-Known Member
Now the is the time for a new and better mousetrap. Some very good ideas and valid concerns have been raised in regards to the current race format and it's now or never. I think some of these teams need to become the real deal and sponsor, promote and run a race in 2011. It's early enough to make it happen. Pull it off and show everyone how it's done, do it well enough and I'll bet you get be invited to the 2012 H2H promoters meeting next year at this time.
 

ryderX

Well-Known Member
You want earlier start times ? Make it happen.
Shorter courses? Make it happen.
Pro/cat 1 race at 8:30 AM ? Make it happen.
Saturday races ? Make it happen
No cherry picking downgrades ? Make it happen.
Electronic timing ? Make it happen.

"the future is unwritten" Joe Strummer
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Do you really expect this to be a constructive thread?

Our team has tried to get into the game in the past and got a resounding big brick wall in response. At what point do you keep trying, and at what point do you give up? I don't have the hours to spare to play politics.

I'm hoping to be able do something in 2011, but it won't be the H2H format.

But playing this hypothetical game - name the venue for me.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
It can be as constructive as you want it to be. Your the moderator. Delete what you see fit

I can do that, though I prefer not to. Since I'm getting pelted by text messages about this, let's bring this conversation to it's logical conclusion.

So I'd repeat the first question, which is one of venue. Where do we look to have a race?
 

bonefishjake

Strong like bull, smart like tractor
Team MTBNJ Halter's
really? change it. you're on the inside so don't tread there.

at this point we have done everything short of paying people off and providing lewd favors to high ranking officials within the NJ MTB community to get involved. for some reason, what ever that reason may be, we have been (as norm has mentioned) completely stone walled. we have wasted a lot of time and energy trying to get more involved on both the team level and the site level. we tried. repeatedly. norm even read a book about making friends and influencing people and that didn't help. so forgive me if when you lead this battle charge about how we can change it and request we make suggestions to do so i don't believe you.

the actions of those in charge have spoken VOLUMES about their position on us and mtbnj.com as a whole. i don't play the politics game and the fact that there even is a politics game in the NJ MTB scene is simply absurd and amazing to me but whatever. either they want our help or they do not. there are no gray areas.
 

ryderX

Well-Known Member
I don't represent the H2H promoters and I'm only expressing my own opinions.
There is no vast conspiracy (that I know of, besides the Tri-lateral commission that is headed by the Pope, but I digress) preventing anyone from promoting an event. The expectation that a first time event should be somehow be included in an ongoing well established series is just not realistic, but besides that you don't need to be included nLook at what darkhorse has down with their series. When W2 sports decided to do a 12 hours race we ask a local park to put an event on, they gave us a list of requirements, we met the requirements and voilà a permit was issued.
 

Panhead

Well-Known Member
Just an idea..

Do you really expect this to be a constructive thread?

Our team has tried to get into the game in the past and got a resounding big brick wall in response. At what point do you keep trying, and at what point do you give up? I don't have the hours to spare to play politics.

I'm hoping to be able do something in 2011, but it won't be the H2H format.

But playing this hypothetical game - name the venue for me.

Pull a permit for Alamuchy, mark a course and put the word out, fliers on cars in the race parking lots. Just call it a mass group ride, no USAC. If H2H doesn't want you, check MASS, NYSMTB.

Do it according to the changes the poll you posted reflects. This site has a lot of influence in the race community. Had leg numbers up and going with just 1 thread....
 

ryderX

Well-Known Member
Pull a permit for Alamuchy, mark a course and put the word out, fliers on cars in the race parking lots. Just call it a mass group ride, no USAC. If H2H doesn't want you, check MASS, NYSMTB.

Do it according to the changes the poll you posted reflects. This site has a lot of influence in the race community. Had leg numbers up and going with just 1 thread....

Ding ding! Exactly.
We have a winner. I'll be the first register, and I'll even have my leg number permanently tattooed after the race.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
The expectation that a first time event should be somehow be included in an ongoing well established series is just not realistic...

Just to clarify, this was not a swipe/jab/shot in any way at the H2H series nor the promoters. I would never expect the series to say, "Oh hey, you have a big mouth on the Internet, I'm sure you'd be a great promoter." If the same situation were reversed, I'd want a potential promoter to prove themselves in some way also. This is common sense, and I don't hold it against anyone to err on the side of caution. The last thing we need is for The Great MTBNJ Race to Nowhere to sink the whole series because we suck so bad. I admit that's a very real possibility, and hold nothing against anyone who thinks that's how any MTBNJ race will go.

Likewise, in no way do I think I can take the bull by the horns and put a race together that is better from top to bottom than anything on the market now. That would be presumptuous and naive. If there was an H2H blogging contest, well then sign me up. I have more base blogging miles than any 2 of you put together. In terms of a race, of course my primary aim would be to not screw up in monumental proportion. It certainly wouldn't be in an effort to build a better mousetrap, so to speak.

However, having a suggestion as to how one might improve an existing product is simple customer feedback, which is what 1 promoter came on the site to ask, and he got. If I call SRAM because their derailleur crapped out on me, they don't tell me to build my own.

As a site, we have been extremely supportive of every race in this state, be it road, mountain, or cross. You cannot put on a race in this state without seeing blue & orange there. Almost no races happen in this state without it being mentioned on this site, again, in all 3 disciplines. The calendar is full of events that cover the states of NJ/NY/PA/MD/DE.

We have asked nothing in return.

Ok, I got sidetracked with this rant. But really, I'm just sayin'.

When W2 sports decided to do a 12 hours race we ask a local park to put an event on, they gave us a list of requirements, we met the requirements and voilà a permit was issued.

The Yoda in me is telling you to look deeper at this statement, young grasshopper. Ah...old grasshopper. Whatever. Yoda says to learn how to remount after the barrier too.
 

bonefishjake

Strong like bull, smart like tractor
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I don't represent the H2H promoters and I'm only expressing my own opinions.
There is no vast conspiracy (that I know of, besides the Tri-lateral commission that is headed by the Pope, but I digress) preventing anyone from promoting an event. The expectation that a first time event should be somehow be included in an ongoing well established series is just not realistic, but besides that you don't need to be included nLook at what darkhorse has down with their series. When W2 sports decided to do a 12 hours race we ask a local park to put an event on, they gave us a list of requirements, we met the requirements and voilà a permit was issued.

i'm not suggesting you represent the H2H promoters. but you have to admit, between JORBA, Bulldog and W2, well, you're on the "inside". Or at least closer to the middle of the venn diagram then we are.

and who said anything about getting an event included in "an ongoing well established series"? that's not it at all. we learned pretty early on that wasn't going to happen. we just wanted to get involved, period. the lack of response and generally malaise disposition of those we spoke with told us everything we needed to know.

as norm mentioned above, the "event" that we had discussed would take place outside of the H2H format, we did/are/want to take the Darkhorse lead. but there is more to it than that...and yes, i'm crossing things a bit here. it's about control, and who has it. it's about the politics (yet again, absurd) of the NJ MTB community and who has "control" over specific parks so they can rule their own little fiefdom.

it would be great to have an open discussion with the people who make the decisions but they won't acknowledge us (mtbnj.com) or that we exist as part of the mtb community.

so again, when you say we can change things, especially here, on mtbnj.com, i don't believe you.
 

ryderX

Well-Known Member
Can the moderators please delete the barrier comment, it was hateful, hurtful and just mean. By the way our 21 second chat last Sunday was NOT the reason you missed your call up.
 

ryderX

Well-Known Member
Your ranting. Pick a park, pick a date, get permission, put the event on. The "man" can't hold you down any longer.
 

bonefishjake

Strong like bull, smart like tractor
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Can the moderators please delete the barrier comment, it was hateful, hurtful and just mean. By the way our 21 second chat last Sunday was NOT the reason you missed your call up.

i'll take care of that nasty barrier comment. i 100% agree with that.
 

bonefishjake

Strong like bull, smart like tractor
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Your ranting. Pick a park, pick a date, get permission, put the event on. The "man" can't hold you down any longer.

can we get a note in writing from said man? maybe just something scribbled on a napkin from salt?
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Can the moderators please delete the barrier comment, it was hateful, hurtful and just mean. By the way our 21 second chat last Sunday was NOT the reason you missed your call up.

It felt longer, more like 22 seconds. I still managed to slide in before the unwashed masses of the rest of the field, which helped. Oh wait, these are our potential customers. So I guess they're ok.

I'm just floored that Jake used malaise and Venn Diagram in his post.
 

Panhead

Well-Known Member
Figure a place and date, I'm sure you will get more than enough people with experiance stepping up to make sure its not a total failure. We all go back to Lewis Morris despite to constant scoring failures, and they've been doing it for years.
 

Norm

Mayor McCheese
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Figure a place and date, I'm sure you will get more than enough people with experiance stepping up to make sure its not a total failure. We all go back to Lewis Morris despite to constant scoring failures, and they've been doing it for years.

You think I can setup a race in bikereg, take your money, fail to show up or even hold an event, and pull it off every year?

I'm pretty sure I can swing that.
 

ryderX

Well-Known Member
I felt a bit outgunned when Jake threw out the Venn reference. Being the Luddite that I am, could either Jake or Norm PM me.
 

UtahJoe

Team Workhorse
Team MTBNJ Halter's
Can the moderators please delete the barrier comment, it was hateful, hurtful and just mean. By the way our 21 second chat last Sunday was NOT the reason you missed your call up.


Were you confused after the barricade? With all that running I thought I was watching the mountain man again. :)
 
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