Me?! I think you have me confused with someone who rides a mountain bike fast. I'm a roadie. 🙂
Going Long and Hard.
- Thread starter Steve Vai
- Start date
Me?! I think you have me confused with someone who rides a mountain bike fast. I'm a roadie. 🙂
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
I forgot about that. Team RBNJ?
So I did get out for my little teeny tiny loop. My wife came home late so, blah. The changes on the TT bike made a HUGE difference. Much more betterer to be in the aero bars and sustain power. What power I don't know. The loop I did only gave a few stretches to really push it and the Garmin just fits between the aero bars so I couldn't hit the lap button. Need a nob.
Split#2 was sorta where I needed to be. Based on my old numbers it looked and felt about right. My peak FTP last year was 338 so if I pick my HR average up from 165 to over 170 where it should be, I'd imagine that would get me an extra 10-15 watts or so. I just need a closed road to put that effort out, I'm in no way confident about doing those with cars and such all over the place. Peep it.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/73135793
Here you can see the bar position change. Doesn't look like much, but it really made a difference.
Shop ride starts tomorrow. I'll have to see if I can dip out early to hit it with the boys. Might not be able to for a few weeks. It moves up 15 minutes every 2 weeks.
That is all. Again.
-Jim.
So I did get out for my little teeny tiny loop. My wife came home late so, blah. The changes on the TT bike made a HUGE difference. Much more betterer to be in the aero bars and sustain power. What power I don't know. The loop I did only gave a few stretches to really push it and the Garmin just fits between the aero bars so I couldn't hit the lap button. Need a nob.
Split#2 was sorta where I needed to be. Based on my old numbers it looked and felt about right. My peak FTP last year was 338 so if I pick my HR average up from 165 to over 170 where it should be, I'd imagine that would get me an extra 10-15 watts or so. I just need a closed road to put that effort out, I'm in no way confident about doing those with cars and such all over the place. Peep it.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/73135793
Here you can see the bar position change. Doesn't look like much, but it really made a difference.
Shop ride starts tomorrow. I'll have to see if I can dip out early to hit it with the boys. Might not be able to for a few weeks. It moves up 15 minutes every 2 weeks.
That is all. Again.
-Jim.
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
Tuesday
Stuff about things. Started off with my normal commute to work over Washington Rock. Sorta drilled it pretty hard up the climb today, legs felt pretty good this morning. I only have a 42t ring on my Seven so I'm normally down in the 25t on the back, today I was mid-way. Sweet.
Got to work and started blasting through the schedule to get ahead enough to dip out early for the shop ride. It leaves at 5:15 now so I gotta dip out 45 minutes early. Worked through lunch and Pete gave me the OK to ride!! Uber sweet!! I had a bunch of cool stuff in the stand today but I only took a break enough to get a pic of Joe's new Cervelo. An R3 Red. He's also using the trick EC90SLX wheels I laced for him with a PowerTap SLC+ inside. Super-trick!! Peep it.
The shop ride went well, no one died. It was nice to see all the guys again. Norm, Joe, and Sexy Rob joined us as well. I don't think Joe or Rob have ever ridden in a pace-line before so they had to get the grasp of group riding, which I think they did by the end? Pace was tame as it was the first ride of the year for the group. Some of us have been riding together but the big group has been in hibernation. Mike and Dirk were well-behaved and didn't kill us, even though they very easily can. Dirk said he still has 4-5 weeks of base before he makes us suffer. On that, peep the file, Dirk said he never got out of Zone2. Shit, we're all dead. Everyone pretty much kept a clean steady paceline, not too much jumpy stuff. Legs continued to feel good during the ride but I was spun out for sections due to my 42t ring. I separated the file so the shop ride is lap#2. Peep it.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/73285384
Anyone catch the spectacular bonk during the ride home? My diet has been on the leaner side the past few weeks and I forgot that I need to eat something when doing 3-hours on the bike. I literally almost passed out coming up Washington Rock. I had to pull over and eat my protein bar I was saving for my recovery meal. By the time I hit Dunellen I felt fine again. Sheesh.
So just for the sake of putting it out there. Here's what I consider to be a lean diet, or at least as lean as my diet will ever get.
Detour Protein bar for breakfast. 1/2 before ride, 1/2 after. Easy.
Around 11am I had an oatmeal cookie, I like cookies.
For Lunch I had my trademark Pantera Greek salad with Balsamic dressing, Joe bought me lunch for building his bike. I normally get the bread, he got me an Apple, I could've used the extra calories from the bread😀
After lunch I had another oatmeal cookie, again, I like cookies!!
Between 3 and 4 I have some sort of snack, usually popcorn, today I had a baggie full of nuts and fruit mix from the Hindu Hut across the street.
So up to this point my calorie intake isn't that high, not that I counted to see if that's true or not, but it doesn't seem that high.
Shop ride.
As I mentioned I ate my recovery bar/dinner on the way home, which was a second Detour Bar.
When I got home I had 2 veggie "BLT"s, hold the T and no mayo. I haven't yet dipped into the fridge for a snack, but I will at some point.
This has been a fairly common day food-wise for the past few weeks. As time goes by I drop and/or substitute something in an attempt to eat better. I have a bunch of guys at the shop that have been dieting and losing a ton of weight. Eric lost nearly 100 pounds this year, Craig lost almost 50 pounds, and even Susie lost 30 something pounds. So the amount of people doing the right stuff has increased and because of it, the shop in general has had better food choices floating around, Saturdays especially. It makes eating better much easier when you've got some support from people around you. Plus I don't drink, which I think is something that gets most people, and I'm vegetarian so my fat intake is pretty low, and my protein is pretty high. Or, at least high enough. I think.
That's it for now. Fridge.
-Jim.
Stuff about things. Started off with my normal commute to work over Washington Rock. Sorta drilled it pretty hard up the climb today, legs felt pretty good this morning. I only have a 42t ring on my Seven so I'm normally down in the 25t on the back, today I was mid-way. Sweet.
Got to work and started blasting through the schedule to get ahead enough to dip out early for the shop ride. It leaves at 5:15 now so I gotta dip out 45 minutes early. Worked through lunch and Pete gave me the OK to ride!! Uber sweet!! I had a bunch of cool stuff in the stand today but I only took a break enough to get a pic of Joe's new Cervelo. An R3 Red. He's also using the trick EC90SLX wheels I laced for him with a PowerTap SLC+ inside. Super-trick!! Peep it.
The shop ride went well, no one died. It was nice to see all the guys again. Norm, Joe, and Sexy Rob joined us as well. I don't think Joe or Rob have ever ridden in a pace-line before so they had to get the grasp of group riding, which I think they did by the end? Pace was tame as it was the first ride of the year for the group. Some of us have been riding together but the big group has been in hibernation. Mike and Dirk were well-behaved and didn't kill us, even though they very easily can. Dirk said he still has 4-5 weeks of base before he makes us suffer. On that, peep the file, Dirk said he never got out of Zone2. Shit, we're all dead. Everyone pretty much kept a clean steady paceline, not too much jumpy stuff. Legs continued to feel good during the ride but I was spun out for sections due to my 42t ring. I separated the file so the shop ride is lap#2. Peep it.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/73285384
Anyone catch the spectacular bonk during the ride home? My diet has been on the leaner side the past few weeks and I forgot that I need to eat something when doing 3-hours on the bike. I literally almost passed out coming up Washington Rock. I had to pull over and eat my protein bar I was saving for my recovery meal. By the time I hit Dunellen I felt fine again. Sheesh.
So just for the sake of putting it out there. Here's what I consider to be a lean diet, or at least as lean as my diet will ever get.
Detour Protein bar for breakfast. 1/2 before ride, 1/2 after. Easy.
Around 11am I had an oatmeal cookie, I like cookies.
For Lunch I had my trademark Pantera Greek salad with Balsamic dressing, Joe bought me lunch for building his bike. I normally get the bread, he got me an Apple, I could've used the extra calories from the bread😀
After lunch I had another oatmeal cookie, again, I like cookies!!
Between 3 and 4 I have some sort of snack, usually popcorn, today I had a baggie full of nuts and fruit mix from the Hindu Hut across the street.
So up to this point my calorie intake isn't that high, not that I counted to see if that's true or not, but it doesn't seem that high.
Shop ride.
As I mentioned I ate my recovery bar/dinner on the way home, which was a second Detour Bar.
When I got home I had 2 veggie "BLT"s, hold the T and no mayo. I haven't yet dipped into the fridge for a snack, but I will at some point.
This has been a fairly common day food-wise for the past few weeks. As time goes by I drop and/or substitute something in an attempt to eat better. I have a bunch of guys at the shop that have been dieting and losing a ton of weight. Eric lost nearly 100 pounds this year, Craig lost almost 50 pounds, and even Susie lost 30 something pounds. So the amount of people doing the right stuff has increased and because of it, the shop in general has had better food choices floating around, Saturdays especially. It makes eating better much easier when you've got some support from people around you. Plus I don't drink, which I think is something that gets most people, and I'm vegetarian so my fat intake is pretty low, and my protein is pretty high. Or, at least high enough. I think.
That's it for now. Fridge.
-Jim.
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
Not a typo. He's been murdering himself to lose weight. Right now he's almost 190 pounds, which is awesome if you know Eric. He wants to get down to 175 I think, which was his racing weight while in his 20's.
And I had 2 cookies. Tomorrow I may have 3 to make up for not eating today. Shit, that reminds me, I still haven't hit the fridge. I'll dig up a snack and plop on the couch to watch the new Tosh.0😀
-Jim.
And I had 2 cookies. Tomorrow I may have 3 to make up for not eating today. Shit, that reminds me, I still haven't hit the fridge. I'll dig up a snack and plop on the couch to watch the new Tosh.0😀
-Jim.
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
If I had to guess, I'd say it was about 100 calories worth of cookie. Like the normal cheap-o store brand size. Maybe twice the size of an Oreo, but skinnier. I'll measure it tomorrow as to have an accurate account of said cookie.
Damnit. Still didn't hit the fridge. This time for sure!! 2 minutes 'til Tosh!!
-Jim.
Damnit. Still didn't hit the fridge. This time for sure!! 2 minutes 'til Tosh!!
-Jim.
You are quite correct Jim. Never rode in a paceline before, that was actually my first group. Well I did one at martys last year, but it was just a friendly pace for the entire ride, nothing at all like last night. I know I was screwing up left and right. I have never ridden in such close formation, 99% of the time im alone on the road. So I was more concerned with hitting someone and that was causing me to drift past front guy before I moved over. After messing this up a few times I decided to head to the back and stay out of the way. Great ride, really fun.
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
It takes a few rides like that to get used to being in a paceline. Most of the choppiness of the group comes from the left lane after someone pulls off. More times than not the speed drops off too far once someone pulls off and then when you finally need to pop into the right side again at the back it takes a big acceleration. It'll smooth out as the weeks go by. That one guy in particular like stopped pedaling right after his pull and I had to jam the brakes a time or two. I told him to keep the pace up when he pulls off. After a few rotations of him not listening I skipped a turn at the back and found a new spot in line😀
-Jim.
-Jim.
The pavement doesn't help anything either. Hard to really get comfortable at that range when you're being bombed by the chatter. Some of the roads really took a beating.
Pulling off and gapping the left side is also not good. You're hanging the #2 guy out to dry there, which I saw a lot of guys do yesterday, even some of the more experienced guys. Several times a few of us just jumped that gap and let the rider dangle.
As the lead rider in that left side, you should want to tell the guy he's clear ASAP. I usually cleared him with half a wheel overlapping, so he would just slide right in and I could get into his draft. Communication helps. Some guys say clear, and that they're the end. Other guys just refuse to communicate.
There was a lot of acceleration in the right lane, for sure. Personally I prefer the seek-and-destroy group rides. Start with 20, try to make it 4 by the end.
Pulling off and gapping the left side is also not good. You're hanging the #2 guy out to dry there, which I saw a lot of guys do yesterday, even some of the more experienced guys. Several times a few of us just jumped that gap and let the rider dangle.
As the lead rider in that left side, you should want to tell the guy he's clear ASAP. I usually cleared him with half a wheel overlapping, so he would just slide right in and I could get into his draft. Communication helps. Some guys say clear, and that they're the end. Other guys just refuse to communicate.
There was a lot of acceleration in the right lane, for sure. Personally I prefer the seek-and-destroy group rides. Start with 20, try to make it 4 by the end.
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
That usually starts to happen once we get back onto the standard summer loop. The ride has a lot more places to try to get away and a bunch more sprint points so the group dwindles a lot. Theoretically, me, Mike, and Chris were the only three guys to make it back to the lot. We dropped Dirk by doing 25 mph on the bike path😀
John Sellers is our go off the front every pull guy. He's a recent transplant from the B ride so he's never worked in a group either. Doing what you said and just pulling off behind those guys works well. I was doing that in the back also in an attempt to keep the line tight, I jumped in front of Joe a time or two as he was getting used the line.
Also, don't be afraid to put your hand on someone and hold them if they're sketching out the line.
It seemed like the group split in 1/2 or so? The group looked kinda big in the lot at the beginning of the ride, I wonder how many people were there:hmmm:
-Jim.
John Sellers is our go off the front every pull guy. He's a recent transplant from the B ride so he's never worked in a group either. Doing what you said and just pulling off behind those guys works well. I was doing that in the back also in an attempt to keep the line tight, I jumped in front of Joe a time or two as he was getting used the line.
Also, don't be afraid to put your hand on someone and hold them if they're sketching out the line.
It seemed like the group split in 1/2 or so? The group looked kinda big in the lot at the beginning of the ride, I wonder how many people were there:hmmm:
-Jim.
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Yes, I noticed this and it was a major part of my problem. I was chop city. I found I was really surging alot. Guy in front of my would make a small gap, then I would pull hard to tighten it back up...but too hard and I would have to tap the brakes or coast...Im sure if my MTBNJ jersey didnt make it clear that im a mountain biker, my riding did 🙂
I think you said it best when I pulled up to you at the end "50 or 60 of these and you start to get it"
MarkyMark
New Member
A good trick I learned when I started riding in a group is to think of your Pull as not over until someone else has pulled off the front and to the left and you now have someone to draft behind, even then your not truly done...you need to recover still.
A good paceline should be smooth and be constantly rotating. You shouldn't pull until your tired, its a short solid effort that shouldnt blow you up. The goal is for everyone to be able to benefit from the recovery and attain higher speeds.
Of course none of this really helped me on the Rocket Ride as I was suffering non stop. Somehow I wound up in the breakaway and got a lovely flogging by Gavi and a few other P/1/2s.
A good way to practice would be to go out in a group of 5-7 people and agree on a particular speed. Nothing too hard, but not too slow, but just enough where some work needs to be done. Maybe 24mph or so.
A good paceline should be smooth and be constantly rotating. You shouldn't pull until your tired, its a short solid effort that shouldnt blow you up. The goal is for everyone to be able to benefit from the recovery and attain higher speeds.
Of course none of this really helped me on the Rocket Ride as I was suffering non stop. Somehow I wound up in the breakaway and got a lovely flogging by Gavi and a few other P/1/2s.
A good way to practice would be to go out in a group of 5-7 people and agree on a particular speed. Nothing too hard, but not too slow, but just enough where some work needs to be done. Maybe 24mph or so.
martin
Active Member
Hehe, just 24 mph.
BiknBen
Well-Known Member
That is an awesome example of paceline bliss. It doesn't happen often though. There is a very fine line between bliss and chaos.
I said to Utah last night that if we're going to go through the trouble of doing an actual paceline (which is more than riding single file) it should be like 27 mph. A good paceline wipes out all preconceived notions of speed on the road. It's just a different ballgame.