TheLonerider
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
For now, i shall indeed have a beer. Good nite all.
For now, i shall indeed have a beer. Good nite all.
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iamspecialized
New Member
Hi Hikeronly, My name is Evan. I understand you are upset that mountain bikers are not abiding by the posted signs and respect your wishes. If the powers that be ever allow mountain biking on certain trails or all trails, I will be sure to treat other trail users with respect while riding there as I always have in NJ and elsewhere. The reality is, we live in a very congested part of an already densely populated state. The idea of solitude on a hike or mountain bike ride on public land is a rare occurrence.
Additionally, history has shown parks that allow mountain bikes see a large volunteer turnout for trail maintenance days that help improve the trail experience for all users. I'd love to see this at Watchung. There are areas that could use some free TLC.
Secondly, I would love your opinion on the trail usage by horses. My opinion is as follows... Equestrian use in public parks is limited to very few that have the means to do so but their environmental impact on the trails is tremendous. Damage to the trails is significant and causes more harm from one horse than a thousand bikes can do. Never have I seen any horse enthusiasts at a trail maintenance day. Despite these observations I still respect the horse people. After all, where else can they go?
Lastly, I urge the rest of the participants of this thread to comment using level of decorum that is befitting this topic we take seriously.
Hikeronly, thank you for joining and being part of the conversation.
bigtwin100
Active Member
I'll stop being gritty and try to be more positive here. Saw the signs today and it is sad. I guess I just do not understand why mountain biking in watchung is so frowned upon by the trail users. every other park system has harmony between bikers and hikers. Today at chimney rock I pulled to the side and chatted with a nice little family and rode away feeling nice. I'm sure this can happen at watchung.
bigtwin100
Active Member
Apologies to all. I'm here to help and be part of a solution
Shorepoints
Well-Known Member
It has happened and does happen on a daily basis at Watchung. Hikeronly is the exception and not the rule. My friends and I are always polite and friendly to hikers at WR, and they are always polite and friendly back. We are only asking to officially legalize what has been going on for years: friendly sharing.
Hikeronly I'll ask for the third time, why do you have a problem with us? Would you be supportive of at least part of WR open to bikes? Once again, not trying to be confrontational, just trying to work toward an amicable solution when we meet with County officials.
bigtwin100
Active Member
Who are the county officials? Also I read on the parks website about watchung it stated one could ride a bike in watchung that is registered with the county. Anyone have any more info on that?
hikeronly
Member
There's a right way to do things, and a wrong way. Your admitted lawbreaking, which you spin as "friendly sharing," yet which is experienced by many as aggressive intrusion, is the wrong way. And it has backfired. If biking continues, it will stymie whatever attempts are made to enact whatever legality you may eventually attain. I would be supportive of whatever the County decides as I am supportive of the current ban. My own feeling and opinion have been shaped by several factors. If bikers en masse have heretofore flouted the law with regularity, it seems to follow that they would likely exceed their allotted boundaries, not to mention the swarm of new, uninformed bikers who, upon hearing that the Reservation is open for biking, would proliferate everywhere. I commend the County for doing the right thing. I know it's a tough pill to swallow, but you do have other venues. Yeah, it's a bit of an inconvenience. Such is life. Count your blessings. And please respect the ban.
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bigtwin100
Active Member
I didn't sift thru the 17 pages for it but what is the ordinance # stating the ban? I would like to read it thru
bigtwin100
Active Member
Hikeronly username name is just a poke. We should not entertain replying to he/she anymore. So sad that a number of hikers are so close minded but it takes a village I guess.
Based on what I have read here combined with what I know, @hikeronly is more in the know than he or she would have you believe. This is someone with somewhat inside information.
Take it for what it's worth.
Take it for what it's worth.
so the bicycle "regulations" for union county parks (and bikes/scooters/etc) have been prominently
displayed on the home page of the website. http://ucnj.org/parks-recreation/parks-regulations/
(please don't start debating all of the regs)
this kinda floated to the top while i was sleeping...yeah, just thinking outloud, so please hang with me just for a second.
----
so without any knowledge, whatsoever. What if this was an experiment to see if mtbers can follow the directions of the park -
that if there were restricted areas, or times of the year, could we follow the instructions? What if @hikeronly was
on our side by asking us to demonstrate the responsibility we preach? the hidden message after "follow the rules" might be,
"and you will be rewarded"
that removing the signs helped to gauge interest, and that replacing them helped gauge responsibility....
while i don't really like these social experiments, it isn't too far fetched (i worked in a consumer behaviour lab up at bell labs, right next to WR)
The people i worked with live right there. like i said, no inside info, but....
yes there will always be rogue bikers but the actions of the overwhelming majority should be the deciding factor.
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kindofa stretch, but i try to think out of the (soap) box.
displayed on the home page of the website. http://ucnj.org/parks-recreation/parks-regulations/
(please don't start debating all of the regs)
this kinda floated to the top while i was sleeping...yeah, just thinking outloud, so please hang with me just for a second.
----
so without any knowledge, whatsoever. What if this was an experiment to see if mtbers can follow the directions of the park -
that if there were restricted areas, or times of the year, could we follow the instructions? What if @hikeronly was
on our side by asking us to demonstrate the responsibility we preach? the hidden message after "follow the rules" might be,
"and you will be rewarded"
that removing the signs helped to gauge interest, and that replacing them helped gauge responsibility....
while i don't really like these social experiments, it isn't too far fetched (i worked in a consumer behaviour lab up at bell labs, right next to WR)
The people i worked with live right there. like i said, no inside info, but....
yes there will always be rogue bikers but the actions of the overwhelming majority should be the deciding factor.
---
kindofa stretch, but i try to think out of the (soap) box.
I hope this all works out for everyone, but the cynic in me says that the ban will continue, and people will keep riding the illegal, run down trails.
It's not the end of the world. JORBA (kirt) and the local volunteers have done such a great job at chimney rock building sustainable trails that showcase the beautiful land that it's become one of the best parks in NJ. And it's only a few minutes from this place.
It's not the end of the world. JORBA (kirt) and the local volunteers have done such a great job at chimney rock building sustainable trails that showcase the beautiful land that it's become one of the best parks in NJ. And it's only a few minutes from this place.
gtluke
The Moped
The problem/excitement with the ban and riding at Watchung is 95% location based. As far as I know, nobody has ever in the history of the MTBNJ board complained about not being able to ride at Jockey Hollow or Norvin Green. The thing about Watchung, and just lump South Mountain, Eagle Rock, Mills, and Hilltop in there too is the location.
Take someone like me, I lived in West Orange for 35 years, if I want to legally ride my mountain bike, I have to pack my car and rive FOURTY minutes while passing a number of the above parks.
After a number of years I said F-it and started riding illegally. After about a year it became painfully clear that nobody uses these parks to begin with. Save for: The road between the parking lot and Hemlock Falls, the dog park, and pot smokers on turtle back rock, the entirety of South Mountain is unused and forgotten. I used to live with my mother in law in West Orange, to I spent a GOOD 10-12 hours a week in South Mountain, and rode Watchung every Wednesday for 2 years. I never saw anyone, ever.
I showed up to the "trail maintenance" that the land manager would host. It would be the 2 guys in charge of the conservancy, and me. No "hiker" ever came out. So nothing ever got done. It is a downright shame how much taxpayer money is spent on trail maintenance and trail building in these parks. Could it be because the guy in charge of the trail conference happens to own a company that wins all the contracts to build trails in non-biker parks like south mountain? It seems it would be in his interest to keep the volunteer powerhouse JORBA out of the park, he wouldn't get those sweet $35,000 contracts to build a mile of trail.
But like I said, location location location.
And I'll take a page out of the DNC handbook and suggest that it's a little fishy that the parks that put up the biggest fight against bikers happen to be within shouting distance of a large minority population. These "border" towns sure to put up a big wall of non-sharing, it seems they are afraid of not how their trails are used, but by whom.
mtbiker87
Well-Known Member
After reading this thread, I'm kinda thinking the same thing as @gtluke . @hikerolny seems to be ok with folks riding anyplace but "his" backyard.
Does that sound like a "hiker" advocating for more responsible trail use? No my friends, it sounds like the grumpy old guy next door screaming at the kids to stay off his lawn.
Fact is...it's not "your" lawn @hikeronly, it was here long before any of us were here to " manage" it. Get over your own self entitlement man, A higher power than you created all this for all of us to enjoy.
Does that sound like a "hiker" advocating for more responsible trail use? No my friends, it sounds like the grumpy old guy next door screaming at the kids to stay off his lawn.
Fact is...it's not "your" lawn @hikeronly, it was here long before any of us were here to " manage" it. Get over your own self entitlement man, A higher power than you created all this for all of us to enjoy.
gtluke
The Moped
well, I don't want to be mean to @hikeronly. I do appreciate that he comes here with his opinions. I don't think we need MTBNJ to be an echo hall of our own opinions.
2 or 3 generationis ago none of these parks were here, they weren't forest of bliss. They were all industrial activities. I don't know much about Watchung, but I know there is that abandoned village, I assume that Watchung was just a mine. I kinda remember that it was also a Nike base during WW2 but that may have been adjacent property. South Mountain was a quarry and a paper mill. there isn't a tree in South Mountain or Watchung that's more than 50 years old. There were just no trees there just a short time ago. So it's not like any group is trying to preserve anything. I mean we hired Olmstead to create South Mountain, bulldoze the residential homes in there, reshape the streams, plant all those rhododendron, build the bridges, plant trees. It's not natural. It's just a place for people to go in the woods. The ordinance in South Mountain is 100+ years old. They had problems with pennyfarthings toppling over onto picnickers in the park lawns. It never had anything to do with mountain bikers. But some studious hiker found that law from when we were all crapping outside and got it inforced.
Frank
Sasquatch
so the bicycle "regulations" for union county parks (and bikes/scooters/etc) have been prominently
displayed on the home page of the website. http://ucnj.org/parks-recreation/parks-regulations/
(please don't start debating all of the regs)
this kinda floated to the top while i was sleeping...yeah, just thinking outloud, so please hang with me just for a second.
----
so without any knowledge, whatsoever. What if this was an experiment to see if mtbers can follow the directions of the park -
that if there were restricted areas, or times of the year, could we follow the instructions? What if @hikeronly was
on our side by asking us to demonstrate the responsibility we preach? the hidden message after "follow the rules" might be,
"and you will be rewarded"
that removing the signs helped to gauge interest, and that replacing them helped gauge responsibility....
while i don't really like these social experiments, it isn't too far fetched (i worked in a consumer behaviour lab up at bell labs, right next to WR)
The people i worked with live right there. like i said, no inside info, but....
yes there will always be rogue bikers but the actions of the overwhelming majority should be the deciding factor.
---
kindofa stretch, but i try to think out of the (soap) box.
After reading what you posted Pat, I think you may have hit the nail on the head.
Some time ago, while JORBA was actively working with the SoMo Cons., there was talk of a trial access......this could well be a test of sorts. Good thinking @fidodie. I must also agree with @hikeronly, we shouldn't be in there when there is a ban as it may have a negative effect on future access. A little inconvenience now may pay dividends later.
hikeronly
Member
Wow. Projecting much? Yes, it's here for all of us to enjoy - sans bikes. You are not entitled to rides bikes in Watchung Reservation. smh
hikeronly
Member
Right, you don't know much about Watchung just like I don't know much about South Mountain Reservation. The Nike base was a temporary takeover by the feds of a very small portion at the eastern end of the Reservation during the height of the Cold War.
http://ucnj.org/trails-map/booklet.pdf
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