Vintage MTB resto: 1980's Ross Force 1/Mt Hood

[JonF]

Current quandry: Can i turn these bolt on axles to a QR type setup? I thought it was 3/8, but it seems more likely a fine metric pitch unless its some weird Imperial fine pitch. The unthreaded portion of the the axle mic's to 9mm, so likely a M9 or M10 fine. I didn't have any fasteners in the junk pile that would fit to confirm. Will likely need a pitch gauge to check.

Any suggestions on how to convert these to a QR setup? Rear frame is 126mm spacing.

 

[Karate Monkey]

Check your thread pitches. 9.5mm nominal would make it a 3/8" axle, and it would use 24 or 26 threads per inch. 9 or 10mm nominal would equate with 1mm thread pitch. You need either known hardware or thread gauges. You could use a ruler and count over an inch or 2cm, though that requires a large amount of measurable area.

Once you know, you can buy hollow axles from Wheels Manufacturing, or dig for appropriate fits in a bike co-op.

Just for giggles, Park still makes removers for classic freewheels, including Maillard. Unfortunately, the Bicycle Research tool that allowed you to remove the freewheel without removing the axle is long out of production...

 

[Karate Monkey]

By the way, if you're keeping track here, that means that over an inch, you'll count either 24TPI, 25.4TPI, or 26TPI. Hence my recommendation to use thread gauges.

 

[one piece crank]

Honest answer? Bolt-on axles are cool. You only need to add a 15mm open-/box-end wrench to your tool kit.

 

[JonF]

Check your thread pitches. 9.5mm nominal would make it a 3/8" axle, and it would use 24 or 26 threads per inch. 9 or 10mm nominal would equate with 1mm thread pitch. You need either known hardware or thread gauges. You could use a ruler and count over an inch or 2cm, though that requires a large amount of measurable area.

Once you know, you can buy hollow axles from Wheels Manufacturing, or dig for appropriate fits in a bike co-op.

Just for giggles, Park still makes removers for classic freewheels, including Maillard. Unfortunately, the Bicycle Research tool that allowed you to remove the freewheel without removing the axle is long out of production...

More checking is def needed here. Though if i stick to the OEM axle, i can defer this to later. I really dont forsee myself removing the wheels often, i'm not exactly commuting in the city with this old bird. Just wanted to pick the collective brain here on viability.

I too thought i would go straight to the source for the tool, but apparently Park has no desire to support this old, obsolete pattern. This one is a 24 spline, 31mm Maillard for sure. Lucky me!

From thier own WWW:

Freewheel Removal and Installation | Park Tool

This article will review the removal and installation of threaded freewheel systems as well as single speed freewheeling BMX/Freestyle bikes.

www.parktool.com

*NOTE: Shimano-style and Falcon freewheels have similar but distinct tool fittings. DO NOT use the FR-1.3 on Falcon freewheels, or the FR-7 on Shimano-style freewheels.

There are older model freewheels where the tool is no longer available. An old Shimano standard has 12 splines of approximately 20mm. There is an older French Maillard freewheel with 24 splines with an approximate diameter of 31mm. Park Tool does not make tools for these freewheel systems.

 

[JonF]

Honest answer? Bolt-on axles are cool. You only need to add a 15mm open-/box-end wrench to your tool kit.

Given the hassle of converting, i'm leaning that way too.

 

[jmanic]

Given the hassle of converting, i'm leaning that way too.

You probably already have a 15mm in the tool box,
for like $8 you can get a set of stubbies from Harbor Freight and have one to fit in a seat bag.

 

[Karate Monkey]

I too thought i would go straight to the source for the tool, but apparently Park has no desire to support this old, obsolete pattern. This one is a 24 spline, 31mm Maillard for sure. Lucky me!

So they don't. Didn't realize, though most shops will still have one. That said, search for "Sachs" or "Normandy" freewheel tool, too. Same pattern.

 

[one piece crank]

Given the hassle of converting, i'm leaning that way too.

just get cool, chrome nuts with integrated washers

 

[JonF]

So they don't. Didn't realize, though most shops will still have one. That said, search for "Sachs" or "Normandy" freewheel tool, too. Same pattern.

I found one on ebay from EU for $24 shipped. Supposedly a reputable, older brand. Be good to have in the toolbox if i can R&R that freewheel instead of replacing. It has an unusual 5cog, 14-32 spread but the teeth are in decent shape. Commonly available Shimano's are typically 28t on the big end, with a 34t "hyper-range" option on some but not sure the derailleur cage would accommodate one that large (even though its only 2 more teeth). these older units dont seem to have a b-screw yet to set spacing.

 

[qclabrat]

Thanks, i'll give them a call and see what they can do. Going to try to break these wheels down and refurb the bearings as they are CRUN-SHEE! But first, lets play a game of 'where did i put that 40 year old Maillard freewheel removal tool'. Oh wait, thats right, neither I nor anyone else in North America has one. Thankfully there are NOS Maillard tools aplenty in Greece on eBay for some reason.

NOT shimano.
View attachment 120575

I have a collection of freewheel keys from buying wrong ones or only using once. Find an old bike shop which has been around. They should be able to help you out for a few bucks. My goto was the Bike Stand in Scotch Plains. If the original owner is still there his name is Steve Willis.

 

[Fire Lord Jim]

Current quandry: Can i turn these bolt on axles to a QR type setup? I thought it was 3/8, but it seems more likely a fine metric pitch unless its some weird Imperial fine pitch. The unthreaded portion of the the axle mic's to 9mm, so likely a M9 or M10 fine. I didn't have any fasteners in the junk pile that would fit to confirm. Will likely need a pitch gauge to check.

Any suggestions on how to convert these to a QR setup? Rear frame is 126mm spacing.
View attachment 120580

At the risk of drawing wrath, here goes. You have a claw derailluer. That means you have horizontal dropouts. You need vertical dropouts for quick release. You will not be able to secure the rear axle in horizontal dropouts with quick release tension. One hard pedal stroke and you will lock the tire into the chainstays.

 

[JonF]

At the risk of drawing wrath, here goes. You have a claw derailluer. That means you have horizontal dropouts. You need vertical dropouts for quick release. You will not be able to secure the rear axle in horizontal dropouts with quick release tension. One hard pedal stroke and you will lock the tire into the chainstays.

You make a valid point there Jim! Definitely not looking forward to any "unintended deceleration".

 

[JonF]

So while i wait for some other tools and parts to arrive, i thought i'd dig into cleaning up and regreasing existing parts. I started with this old rear der and after about 30 mins in with a variety of degreasers, scotch brite, steel wool, wire brushes, i said EFF IT! this grungy old turd is far too corroded to bother. That and the idler wheels are plum worn out and would need replacement anyways. A NOS replacement der is available on eBay for $10, cheaper than just a new set of idlers. SCORE!

The Front der isn't as bad and is a much simpler mechanism so i think it will clean up better.

 

[Patrick]

clean enough to be a paper weight now.

 

[JonF]

My Maillard freewheel tool arrived from the UK arrived this weekend. (SIDEBAR - its always shocking how fast and cheap international shipping can be, but to UPS a small item CONUS without a corporate account is in full bend over territory. Whatevs.)

Luckily there was a nice, simple how-to vi on youtube on how to break down and rebuild a Maillard freewheel from a nice chap in Europe. Knowing what needs to be unscrewed in which direction to undo this puzzle box is key. Sucker sure was on tight, had to clamp the ever living shyte out of it on the jig table and break out a cheater bar to pop the threads loose.

Had that park tool whip flexing within an inch of its life.

Once apart, you can separate all the cogs and spacers from the freewheel mechanism.

I disassembly the freewheel ratchet as well, cleaned them all up, added new ~100new 1/16 ball bearings and she spins quite nice now.

However... i recently found that while cleaning the rear hub, the bearing cups are pretty scored. I tried polishing them out but its kinda bad. I didn't get a good pic of it but its something you can feel with a fingernail. Maybe it'll be fine for the 1-2 times a year i ride this for old times sake though.

Are replacement bearing cups a thing?

 

[JonF]

While i figure out a plan for the wheel situation, i'm going to open up another can of worms down in the bottom bracket. Back in the 90's, i used this bike while in college to get around town. I recall the crank arm having some play and took it to a bike shop to get it fixed. Apparantly its not uncommon for the square taper in the aluminum crank to get wallowed out and therefore never really get tight again.

In pulling things apart, i found a few surprises. First, the shop put in a new bottom bracket and then added a metal shim onto the crank arm to tighten up the interface. I guess that worked but not 100% since it came out too easily. The other side of the crank with the chainrings was a stubborn bastard. I was using a 3 jaw puller and i guess the pilot tip was a bit too wide and i gouged the taper badly. eBay to the rescue again, a much nicer set of identical forged Takegi Tourney A/D cranks for $25 with pristine tapers is on its way.

I also discovered that the bottom bracket that was on there had once side made of plastic which promptly grenaded when trying to zip it off with the impact. I had to break out the torch and get it nice and melty then she popped right out. Installed a fresh BB and its ready for some new-ish cranks.

 

[qclabrat]

My Maillard freewheel tool arrived from the UK arrived this weekend. (SIDEBAR - its always shocking how fast and cheap international shipping can be, but to UPS a small item CONUS without a corporate account is in full bend over territory. Whatevs.)

Luckily there was a nice, simple how-to vi on youtube on how to break down and rebuild a Maillard freewheel from a nice chap in Europe. Knowing what needs to be unscrewed in which direction to undo this puzzle box is key. Sucker sure was on tight, had to clamp the ever living shyte out of it on the jig table and break out a cheater bar to pop the threads loose.

Had that park tool whip flexing within an inch of its life.

View attachment 121222

Once apart, you can separate all the cogs and spacers from the freewheel mechanism.

View attachment 121224

I disassembly the freewheel ratchet as well, cleaned them all up, added new ~100new 1/16 ball bearings and she spins quite nice now.

However... i recently found that while cleaning the rear hub, the bearing cups are pretty scored. I tried polishing them out but its kinda bad. I didn't get a good pic of it but its something you can feel with a fingernail. Maybe it'll be fine for the 1-2 times a year i ride this for old times sake though.

Are replacement bearing cups a thing?

View attachment 121226

I want jig table now

 

[qclabrat]

While i figure out a plan for the wheel situation, i'm going to open up another can of worms down in the bottom bracket. Back in the 90's, i used this bike while in college to get around town. I recall the crank arm having some play and took it to a bike shop to get it fixed. Apparantly its not uncommon for the square taper in the aluminum crank to get wallowed out and therefore never really get tight again.

In pulling things apart, i found a few surprises. First, the shop put in a new bottom bracket and then added a metal shim onto the crank arm to tighten up the interface. I guess that worked but not 100% since it came out too easily. The other side of the crank with the chainrings was a stubborn bastard. I was using a 3 jaw puller and i guess the pilot tip was a bit too wide and i gouged the taper badly. eBay to the rescue again, a much nicer set of identical forged Takegi Tourney A/D cranks for $25 with pristine tapers is on its way.

View attachment 121230


I also discovered that the bottom bracket that was on there had once side made of plastic which promptly grenaded when trying to zip it off with the impact. I had to break out the torch and get it nice and melty then she popped right out. Installed a fresh BB and its ready for some new-ish cranks.

View attachment 121231

There's some interesting tools in the back. We have threads for those here as well. One stop shop...

 

[JonF]

I want jig table now

Its comes in handy even outside of its primary metalworking purpose. I don't have a truing stand, but a couple squares and a dial indicator yields the same thing. Turns out i have 50 thou runout on this wheel.