USAC and H2H?

[MadisonDan]

How many races would they do with out the USAC license?

Cat 2/3 do need the license, if they do more than one race (I think).

Like Jeremy said, mine auto renewed, and I only saw the confirmation a week later in my spam folder.

Also, I used the $500 credit for a VW a few years ago, so I got like 6+ years of free licenses. ??‍♂️

 

[Norm]

As a promoter in the H2H series I will ask & answer 2 questions of myself:

Q: What does USAC bring you or the scene?
A: I don't know.

Q: Will the MTBNJ Stewart race be a USAC race in 2020?
A: I don't know.

 

[Kirt]

@Dave Taylor - you didn't answer the question on your own team. Your team ran 2 races and both were USAC sanctioned. No public post about that. Aren't you being a little hypocritical?

 

[onetracker]

I am not trying to stir the pot; it is no secret that I am unimpressed with USAC’s support of local grass roots mountain bike events/scene/culture.

However, since all of the current growth in cycling is in the Gravel Segment, I thought the following article was quite interesting:

Sorry, USA Cycling, But Gravel Won’t Save You

Can the sport’s trendiest discipline reinvigorate its national governing body? And should we even care?

www.outsideonline.com

 

[Pearl]

I guess...just let it be, let it whither away. I thought I would hear maybe some ideas for improvement or possible changes to attract some new faces. Not the case, just everyone on the defense. Why when I mention any sort of constructive criticism you guys just see criticism? Is the overall number of h2h racers greater in 2019 than it was in 2016? If it is then shame in me, if it isn’t thwn open your ears.

Based on what others said, the numbers seem healthy and sustainable. Also plenty of non-USAC races to do, and probably that conflict with those weekends.

Not saying I’m for or against USAC, but it seems the h2h series is doing okay.

I think a lot has to do with where you are personally in your “racing career”. Think back to when you started. I remember being all-in to bike racing and the license didn’t matter at Cat 3 or 2. It was just part of the game and it was new. Now that you’re a salty old vet, you scoff at these things. Nothing wrong with that. It might be a deterrent to you, but to others, they are 1000% stoked and USAC just makes it more official to them.

 

[Dave Taylor]

How many races would they do with out the USAC license?

Cat 2/3 do need the license, if they do more than one race (I think).

Like Jeremy said, mine auto renewed, and I only saw the confirmation a week later in my spam folder.

Also, I used the $500 credit for a VW a few years ago, so I got like 6+ years of free licenses. ??‍♂️

Cat 2/3 can purchase daily license. I don’t just waste my money on 100 different auto renews. I stated we have a limit on out LR race. We did usac for the race but only one day license required. I think our cx race had over 300. I think my post was more opposing needing an annual license. Not a big deal to buy a 1 day.

 

[Dave Taylor]

Based on what others said, the numbers seem healthy and sustainable. Also plenty of non-USAC races to do, and probably that conflict with those weekends.

Not saying I’m for or against USAC, but it seems the h2h series is doing okay.

I think a lot has to do with where you are personally in your “racing career”. Think back to when you started. I remember being all-in to bike racing and the license didn’t matter at Cat 3 or 2. It was just part of the game and it was new. Now that you’re a salty old vet, you scoff at these things. Nothing wrong with that. It might be a deterrent to you, but to others, they are 1000% stoked and USAC just makes it more official to them.

Year over year h2h numbers aren’t rapidly declining?

 

[Dave Taylor]

How about a simple answer, the main sponsor wanted it to be. And if someone in this day and age is willing to put up thousands of dollars to help keep a series alive, you might want to oblige. That said, it's not that black and white. Mayhem had well over 400 racers, Lewis Morris, like 300, both USAC, can you explain that? Iron Furnace, non-USAC, 140. The NY series is non as well and they have been struggling worse than H2H. Bear Creek (A MASS race) had 205. Luckys, under a 100 and USAC? (No comment on your own teams choice there? ) See a trend?

A race tire these days can cost close to $100, a 4 pack of good beer close to $20. You travel to races and spent $100's on a single race mulitple times a yr between gas, hotel, food. And you are really going to complain about an $80 membership fee?

And as Magic stated, cross. Most top racers do both, so most don't care.

Instead of getting tender just reread the original post. Each of your replied just sounds bitter to me and not really explaining/discussing. If a Cat 1/pro/endurance racer didn’t need to buy an $80 annual license would more racers show up here and there? Several pros jump in to blow the cobwebs out before bigger races but don’t want to commit to the whole series. I know the answer is “If u don’t like it don’t do it” and I agree. But it’s not my problem, I and many others do go elsewhere to race for that reason. Where is the waywayanda race now? What others have disappeared for similar reasons? I don’t want the h2h series to go away but going from 8 down to 5 races isn’t exactly a thriving series is it? Not to beat a dead horse but the ss class is best example. To do one 2 lap race it will cost you a minimum of $120

 

[jeffstick]

Hey Dave you might as well drop it. I’m not saying this as a smart ass but as someone who has promoted many races in and out of a series and also raced many races in the series years ago and now just do not race anything associated with USAC by my own choice. The current crop of series promoters make their own choices for their own reasons we make our race choices for our own reasons. Just go race MASS as the fields are bigger and if you want competition it’s there also. Plus to your point no license required.
It seems your post on the FB page of H2H got ignored there which I would guess is why you brought it here.

 

[xc62701]

As a promoter we went with USAC for our event to be part of the njcx series. Our endurance race was USAC because it was easy to setup as there was experience from setting up the Cx race insurance.

 

[Patrick]

Cat 2/3 can purchase daily license. I don’t just waste my money on 100 different auto renews. I stated we have a limit on out LR race. We did usac for the race but only one day license required. I think our cx race had over 300. I think my post was more opposing needing an annual license. Not a big deal to buy a 1 day.

so if you are willing to buy 2 one-day licenses, doesn't that make the incremental jump to the yearly even smaller?

The incremental spend is $30, cause from the USAC website, Cat 1 single-day mtb is available online.

Cycling Memberships | Bicycle Racing License | USA Cycling

RIDE WITH US! If you enjoy being on two wheels, you belong here. Cycling memberships built for you. All Cycling Memberships Include Membership Value We believe…

www.usacycling.org

Experienced One-Days If your categories prohibit you from entering a race with a beginner one-day license (cat 1 mountain bike and anything but cat 5 for road, track and cyclo-cross), you can purchase the experienced one-day license for $25. The experienced one-day license is only available online.

OR

Are you claiming the license (single day, or annual) is a barrier to participation?
Or that the incremental cost of the race entry fee is a problem in addition to the license, because it is USAC (@Norm, does a race cost more to run because USAC?)

 

[Dave Taylor]

so if you are willing to buy 2 one-day licenses, doesn't that make the incremental jump to the yearly even smaller?

The incremental spend is $30, cause from the USAC website, Cat 1 single-day mtb is available online.

Cycling Memberships | Bicycle Racing License | USA Cycling

RIDE WITH US! If you enjoy being on two wheels, you belong here. Cycling memberships built for you. All Cycling Memberships Include Membership Value We believe…

www.usacycling.org

Experienced One-Days If your categories prohibit you from entering a race with a beginner one-day license (cat 1 mountain bike and anything but cat 5 for road, track and cyclo-cross), you can purchase the experienced one-day license for $25. The experienced one-day license is only available online.

OR

Are you claiming the license (single day, or annual) is a barrier to participation?
Or that the incremental cost of the race entry fee is a problem in addition to the license, because it is USAC (@Norm, does a race cost more to run because USAC?)

H2H does not allow one day

 

[Patrick]

H2H does not allow one day

I can't find that in the rules.

Rules & Regulations – H2H MTB Race Series

but if true,
Perhaps lobby to allow the 1-day expert as a focused effort, rather than the unfocused 'what/why usac?'

 

[Dave Taylor]

I can't find that in the rules.

Rules & Regulations – H2H MTB Race Series

but if true,
Perhaps lobby to allow the 1-day expert as a focused effort, rather than the unfocused 'what/why usac?'

Look at the last line.

 

[JimN]

Look at the last line.

There used to not be a one day license option from USAC for Cat 1. Perhaps the H2H FAQ is just old and hasn't been updated to reflect that this exists now?

 

[Patrick]

View attachment 120268Look at the last line.

that is in the faq - not in the rules - the rules state the annual license is for the state championship.

I'd suggest we get further clarification directly from the organizers.

 

[MadisonDan]

View attachment 120268Look at the last line.

That's probably from several years ago... "Jamis Bicycles" H2H Race is the tell.

 

[Dave Taylor]

T

There used to not be a one day license option from USAC for Cat 1. Perhaps the H2H FAQ is just old and hasn't been updated to reflect that this exists now?

hey FAQ does have newer up to date i fo in it however. Maybe someone who knows the rules better can speak up? I have several people that stopped racing h2h because of the required usac license. Maybe it’s all a misunderstanding?

 

[Santapez]

Dave's getting a lot of hate here, but I think his post is pretty legit. He's asking for a discussion on if it makes sense for these races to be USAC and if they really bring anything to the table, or if these races are USAC due to legacy.

In the end, it doesn't matter as Kirt pointed it out. H2H is USAC because the people who have the game ball want it to be. Whether it makes the series better/worse doesn't really play into if the series will or will not be USAC.

 

[jeffstick]

One of the problems is that those “holding the game ball” as it’s stated have a narrow minded opinion on how races should be promoted. Heck the series coordinator doesn’t even show up and support any of the races, just kind of sits back and answers emails or questions but then again maybe not even questions because Dave didn’t get an answer to his question on Facebook.