Dusty the Whale
Mr.Chainsaw
heres a pic of me leaving for work in the morning...these cars get gallons per mile...
Toyota Prius
- Thread starter Shaggz
- Start date
heres a pic of me leaving for work in the morning...these cars get gallons per mile...
i currently lease two cars and own one. previously i owned three.
if you REALLY sit down and figure it out, you may come out a little behind with a lease but it's NOTHING compared to trying to sell a vehicle you bought new just three years earlier and the market for said used vehicle is literally $8,000 less...no matter WHAT condition it's in. this is the single biggest pitfall (aside from the out of pocket) that exists in the car market.
as i said, over the last six years i have owned three or four cars. owned, not leased, and i've been upside down every time. now, i still own a car (the 82 scramber) and after my lease is up with the cherokee (in three years) i will probably look to buy a car for me b/c i barely drive anywhere and i will keep the thing forever. but for my family, which has changed three times in the last four years, being locked into something makes no sense.
in the end, it's a case by case basis. hell, even the used car market is brutal and that's probably the MOST eco-friendly thing you can possibly do.
Last edited:
TonyC
Active Member
You will not be upside down because you put equity into a car that depreciated 8-10k when you drove it off the lot.
any which way it's all a waste of money.
TonyC
Active Member
my train car.. '96 Civic -has 64k miles- Bought cash in '96, No car payment on it for 12yrs. But insurance is still 1k/yr, took collision off now it's 700/yr..
I agree with Norm-e: buy the thing and run it into the ground. anything else such as leasing, or buying and then rebuying a new car every 3 years is a great way to hand money over to detroit, er uh.. i mean tokyo.
by the way, a mechanic once told me that the hybrid battery life is about 4-5 years so as soon as you get the financial benefit from higher mpgs, you have to plunk down $3K to get the replacement batteries. although this article
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-batteries-none-the-worse-for-wear-cga.htm
seems to indicate that might be overblown. then again, I can see some people laying down 200K miles in 5 years, wo problems.
anyway, i'm keeping by suby until the turbo shoots through the hood. i'd rather piss away good money on things that matter, like bikes.
disclaimer: i reserve the right to change my mind tomorrow.
by the way, a mechanic once told me that the hybrid battery life is about 4-5 years so as soon as you get the financial benefit from higher mpgs, you have to plunk down $3K to get the replacement batteries. although this article
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-batteries-none-the-worse-for-wear-cga.htm
seems to indicate that might be overblown. then again, I can see some people laying down 200K miles in 5 years, wo problems.
anyway, i'm keeping by suby until the turbo shoots through the hood. i'd rather piss away good money on things that matter, like bikes.
disclaimer: i reserve the right to change my mind tomorrow.
VanDbtRiver
Well-Known Member
ive been looking at older diesel powered mercedes and volvos, anyone have experience with them? The yaris and corolla do seem more practical, but less hip
Last edited:
NJ-XC-Justin
KY-DH-Freddy
Hey man. I would think those older diesels got good mileage for the time but nothing compared to what you can get now. Probably average 18 mpg in an 85 benz and 35 in a less cool corolla. And think how you'll miss your spark plugs!
Steve Vai
Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
Yo son, the Yaris is crazy hip. And it's a chick magnet. They know you ain't tryin' to make up for something else. Of course my wife would get upset if I picked up chicks, so I use the insanely massive 107HP powerplant to run them down. Less chicks is good for the environment, because chicks use a lot of stuff that's made out of plastic, so the Yaris is the ultimate Eco-friendly machine. Or,
if you really wanted to make a difference, instead of buying a car, stop eating cows and ride your bike. That's how I roll son:rofl:
-Jim.
my corolla is real hip... kicks butt too... in fact IT ROCKS!!! even tho i look like a total dork.
but at least it gets me good mileage even with a roof rack.
even tho i look like a total dork.but at least it gets me good mileage even with a roof rack.
Last edited:
Mongoose Rider
New Member
An inside opinion on the prius
OK, let me speak in defense of the Prius,
First off I am not angry and this is not, nor should it be constrused as a flame post. Just want to give the Prius some support.
Yesterday was my 1 year anniversary of buying a Prius. LOVE IT... The looks take some getting used to, I get it.
Yes it is a statement, we need to get away from petroleum and it is the first step...
As far as batteries dying in 4-5 years, it's a load of crap and I am sick of people saying that, but I understand why... I had the same concern when I purchased it. The batteries' based warranty is for 8yrs and I think 60K miles (not certain about the mileage but that should be close). As far as not eco-friendly to dispose of.... Um, Anyone ever hear of recycling? They get reused, sounds eco-friendly to me...
Diesel's can get good mileage also but that doesn't change the fact that you aren't doing anything to get away from petroleum. Not to mention they have alot of emissions.
Let's do some math, I traded in my GMC envoy (16mpg) for the Prius. It costs me (@ $3.89/g $38 to fill from empty. I drove 23K miles last year.
Using the SUV, I would have burnt 1,437 gallons. With the prius, 821gallons. That's right on AVERAGE I get about 48mpg, sometimes as high as 52 and as low as 48.
That puts the cost of gas for the year on my Envoy at $5748/yr, cost of the Prius $3284 (Based on $4/g).
Contrary to what people think you can fit alot of crap in the back of the Prius, granted not the same as what I could do with the ENVOy but realisticly, since owning the Prius it has not been able to carry/tow for me on two occasions (remedied by renting a truck from Home depot/Lowes for $19)
Anway, just my thoughts on the prius.... I hope I didn't bore you.
OK, let me speak in defense of the Prius,
First off I am not angry and this is not, nor should it be constrused as a flame post. Just want to give the Prius some support.
Yesterday was my 1 year anniversary of buying a Prius. LOVE IT... The looks take some getting used to, I get it.
Yes it is a statement, we need to get away from petroleum and it is the first step...
As far as batteries dying in 4-5 years, it's a load of crap and I am sick of people saying that, but I understand why... I had the same concern when I purchased it. The batteries' based warranty is for 8yrs and I think 60K miles (not certain about the mileage but that should be close). As far as not eco-friendly to dispose of.... Um, Anyone ever hear of recycling? They get reused, sounds eco-friendly to me...
Diesel's can get good mileage also but that doesn't change the fact that you aren't doing anything to get away from petroleum. Not to mention they have alot of emissions.
Let's do some math, I traded in my GMC envoy (16mpg) for the Prius. It costs me (@ $3.89/g $38 to fill from empty. I drove 23K miles last year.
Using the SUV, I would have burnt 1,437 gallons. With the prius, 821gallons. That's right on AVERAGE I get about 48mpg, sometimes as high as 52 and as low as 48.
That puts the cost of gas for the year on my Envoy at $5748/yr, cost of the Prius $3284 (Based on $4/g).
Contrary to what people think you can fit alot of crap in the back of the Prius, granted not the same as what I could do with the ENVOy but realisticly, since owning the Prius it has not been able to carry/tow for me on two occasions (remedied by renting a truck from Home depot/Lowes for $19)
Anway, just my thoughts on the prius.... I hope I didn't bore you.
gtluke
The Moped
you need to fix some things in your math.
replace your envoy with a yaris 4 door and do the math
and then replace your envoy with a prius and do the math.
your math had everything to do with ditching a suv and going with a car, and very little to do with going to a hybrid.
you should also look up what it takes to produce nickle, and aluminum found all over a prius.
The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.
The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.
“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery.
also....
you should note that a prius weighs about 3100 lbs and has an AMAZING coeeficient of drag.
the electric motor isn't really helping (read conservation of energy) but the fact that the car is built to get good milage unlike any other car i can think of. it has absolutely unsafe rock hard tires for rolling resistance as well.
take the hybrid drivetrain out of the prius and dump in a 1.6 turbo diesel motor and i bet the damn thing will get over 70mpg
replace your envoy with a yaris 4 door and do the math
and then replace your envoy with a prius and do the math.
your math had everything to do with ditching a suv and going with a car, and very little to do with going to a hybrid.
you should also look up what it takes to produce nickle, and aluminum found all over a prius.
The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.
The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.
“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery.
also....
you should note that a prius weighs about 3100 lbs and has an AMAZING coeeficient of drag.
the electric motor isn't really helping (read conservation of energy) but the fact that the car is built to get good milage unlike any other car i can think of. it has absolutely unsafe rock hard tires for rolling resistance as well.
take the hybrid drivetrain out of the prius and dump in a 1.6 turbo diesel motor and i bet the damn thing will get over 70mpg
Mongoose Rider
New Member
Good response I admit, but like I said, batteries are recyclable so it is not all coming from this "plague-factory", it is interesting though, I didn't know that about the battery production, I assume it to be true. Keep in mind though all cars have batteries, I am sure trucks have larger batteries than the Prius so let's not blame the plague of North America soley on this ONE particular car.
What about the amount of energy saved in not transporting the oil that will not be used by over the lifetime of the Prius. Surely that would counteract the initial impact of transporting the batteries.
It's not completely fair to compare a Yaris to the Prius because they are on different levels.
The prius is much roomier, and has much better features, I could fill a page listing features that the yaris doesn't have or you have to pay extra for. Rear cargo space on the Yaris is 9 cubic feet as apposed to the Prius' 14.
Not to mention that by VEHIX.COM's quotes the yaris only gets 32 mpg. Not to say it is a bad car by any means but it is a stripped out econo-box and still gets 15 mpg less than it's big brother.
I have never had a problem with the Prius' handling, I am a relatively calm driver BUT still, never had a problem so I can't see how you could call the tires "absolutely unsafe". You wanna talk about safety, it comes standard with ABS, 6 airbags and got an "excellent" according to consumer reports for overall safety.
I think it is funny that you could use the Prius' excellant coeficient of drag against it. It's a funny looking car at first but I have grown to enjoy it's function-over-form, so I think it is a PLUS that it has this level of efficiency. And now I even enjoy it's looks..( But that's all subjective)
You say that the electrics are no more efficient than the gas but that is not true. It is widely and commonly known that electric motors are much more efficient at low-end torque than gasoline, granted they lose that as the RPM's increase but that's the essence of a hybrid. Not to mention the fact that Toyota's hybrid system incorporates the ability of regenerative braking to it's system. Sure it's not going to save enough energy to power NYC but it sure increases it's efficiency and uses it's power wisely. Something even Honda's hybrid can't do.
Anyway, thank you for the intelligent banter. I look forward to your reply gtluke.
Good day,
What about the amount of energy saved in not transporting the oil that will not be used by over the lifetime of the Prius. Surely that would counteract the initial impact of transporting the batteries.
It's not completely fair to compare a Yaris to the Prius because they are on different levels.
The prius is much roomier, and has much better features, I could fill a page listing features that the yaris doesn't have or you have to pay extra for. Rear cargo space on the Yaris is 9 cubic feet as apposed to the Prius' 14.
Not to mention that by VEHIX.COM's quotes the yaris only gets 32 mpg. Not to say it is a bad car by any means but it is a stripped out econo-box and still gets 15 mpg less than it's big brother.
I have never had a problem with the Prius' handling, I am a relatively calm driver BUT still, never had a problem so I can't see how you could call the tires "absolutely unsafe". You wanna talk about safety, it comes standard with ABS, 6 airbags and got an "excellent" according to consumer reports for overall safety.
I think it is funny that you could use the Prius' excellant coeficient of drag against it. It's a funny looking car at first but I have grown to enjoy it's function-over-form, so I think it is a PLUS that it has this level of efficiency. And now I even enjoy it's looks..( But that's all subjective)
You say that the electrics are no more efficient than the gas but that is not true. It is widely and commonly known that electric motors are much more efficient at low-end torque than gasoline, granted they lose that as the RPM's increase but that's the essence of a hybrid. Not to mention the fact that Toyota's hybrid system incorporates the ability of regenerative braking to it's system. Sure it's not going to save enough energy to power NYC but it sure increases it's efficiency and uses it's power wisely. Something even Honda's hybrid can't do.
Anyway, thank you for the intelligent banter. I look forward to your reply gtluke.
Good day,
Here was my simple solution. 3 years ago I bought a 99 saturn SL-2 with 49K miles for $2500. Gets 32mpg on average. I have put 60,000 miles on it with $35 in repair costs (broken front axle) and ~$200 in maintence costs.
So even if fuel was $4 a gallon for the past 3 years that would mean I would have spent $7500 in gas. If I have a 45mpg prius I would have spent $5333. So I would have saved $2166 in gas. Of course a prius cost ~23,000+ new. So $23,000-$2500 = ~20,500 I saved in buying my saturn over a prius. Not counting over course the money I saved in insurance and reg. fees. My saturn only costs $400 a year for insurance.
So if you minus the gas savings, im still about 18,000 ahead. So at this rate it would take just shy of 25 years for the gas savings of the prius to make it worth the price over my saturn.
So even if fuel was $4 a gallon for the past 3 years that would mean I would have spent $7500 in gas. If I have a 45mpg prius I would have spent $5333. So I would have saved $2166 in gas. Of course a prius cost ~23,000+ new. So $23,000-$2500 = ~20,500 I saved in buying my saturn over a prius. Not counting over course the money I saved in insurance and reg. fees. My saturn only costs $400 a year for insurance.
So if you minus the gas savings, im still about 18,000 ahead. So at this rate it would take just shy of 25 years for the gas savings of the prius to make it worth the price over my saturn.
gtluke
The Moped
i wasn't trying to use the drag against it, i was actually praising it. but i'm trying to point out that the hybrid drive isnt' what is netting the 45mpg, its that the car is 25% lighter than an equivalent car, and has probably half the drag, wind and rolling.
i want toyota to offer the prius without the hybrid drive and offer a much more simple diesel instead. it would get terrific mpg, way better than the hybrid.
i think its sad how modern cars get such terrible gas mileage. back in college my daily driver was a 1986 mustang gt 5.0
it gets better gas mileage than today's toyota camry. i mean it doesn't now (still have it 11 years later) because it has about 700hp, but anyway...
these cars today are so damn heavy with 6 airbags, emissions out the butt, 5 star crash blah blah, but that all just ads up to a poor handling heavy car that you now can not avoid the accident with because you cant' stop in time, and can't drive around because the car is so heavy.
and don't get me wrong, i'm a supporter of electric vehicles. i have 2 "race" cars, and i design electric motor control systems for a living. if i had an electric car, i could easily make it ridiculous
i've even heavily researched building one, but the cost is astronomical for the return even considering i can get almost all of the parts needed at severe discount through work.
but power is power, a motor charging an electric motor will output less power than the motor alone due to transformer and conversion losses.
you do gain from the motor shutting off when still, and from regenerative breaking though. but hell, drive a stick shift, the fuel injectors turn off when you are decelerating in gear.
i'll wait for a capacitor battery that can take me at least 180 miles, or a hybrid that uses a 1 liter diesel engine disconnected from the drivetrain. until then hybrids really are not doing anything at all.
i want toyota to offer the prius without the hybrid drive and offer a much more simple diesel instead. it would get terrific mpg, way better than the hybrid.
i think its sad how modern cars get such terrible gas mileage. back in college my daily driver was a 1986 mustang gt 5.0
it gets better gas mileage than today's toyota camry. i mean it doesn't now (still have it 11 years later) because it has about 700hp, but anyway...
these cars today are so damn heavy with 6 airbags, emissions out the butt, 5 star crash blah blah, but that all just ads up to a poor handling heavy car that you now can not avoid the accident with because you cant' stop in time, and can't drive around because the car is so heavy.
and don't get me wrong, i'm a supporter of electric vehicles. i have 2 "race" cars, and i design electric motor control systems for a living. if i had an electric car, i could easily make it ridiculous
i've even heavily researched building one, but the cost is astronomical for the return even considering i can get almost all of the parts needed at severe discount through work.
but power is power, a motor charging an electric motor will output less power than the motor alone due to transformer and conversion losses.
you do gain from the motor shutting off when still, and from regenerative breaking though. but hell, drive a stick shift, the fuel injectors turn off when you are decelerating in gear.
i'll wait for a capacitor battery that can take me at least 180 miles, or a hybrid that uses a 1 liter diesel engine disconnected from the drivetrain. until then hybrids really are not doing anything at all.
gtluke
The Moped
oh yeah read this, a very very successful car designer that has the same point of view as me
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7387432.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7387432.stm
With all due respect. Every part of a prius uses oil in its construction. From the tires, to the battery, to the plastic everywhere on it, the windows, sheetmetal, everything. The extra 15mpg or so its gets better than my saturn is not a statement in getting the world away from oil. Even a car that is 100% battery powered is really powered by oil when you consider how the majority of our power is produced. (burning coal) Diesel might produce more particulate emmisions (today, new diesel formulas have that almost down to nothing) but they far exceed gas hybrids in ecomony. Of course our EPA's particulate emission regulations have made it hard for us to get the same diesels that Europe has, but thats changing.
wait....64 that can't be right
Wow it's right there in the spec sheet. Why do we need hybrids again?
Toyota Yaris 3dr Hatchback Specifications
Last edited: