the NOT SO official 27.5+ thread.

[qclabrat]

the shop keepers can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine there's a considerably higher margin for mid to low level bikes compared to the high end steeds I see everyone posting here. None of the bike companies want to miss out on what's next as the consumers are still trying to figure out what they want. (All companies don't want to be the next Suntour) The reality is that redesign and retooling has become so much easier and affordable than before that the companies can write off a bike design as a failure then move on. Technology has helped with this along with the addition of the skilled Chinese mfrs in the past few decade or two.

After the planned assassination of the 26r, the 29r though testimonially better for many, is still not the heir to the 26r. for example my kids both ride older 26rs, one is 4'10" and the other is 5'4", neither could step up from a 24" wheel to 29". Which is where the 27.5 comes in, still not a transition bike for the younger, but much more reasonable for the older. The 27.5+ serves a relatively small niche in the community at the moment, but I think that will grow as casual riders will perceive their skills are improving, as they'll roll over everything with their 3" tires and 120mm travel. Bike companies are trying to make riding skills less important with bikes like the 27.5+, which I'm not sure if it good or bad at the moment.

 

[Monkey Soup]

the shop keepers can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd imagine there's a considerably higher margin for mid to low level bikes compared to the high end steeds I see everyone posting here. None of the bike companies want to miss out on what's next as the consumers are still trying to figure out what they want. (All companies don't want to be the next Suntour) The reality is that redesign and retooling has become so much easier and affordable than before that the companies can write off a bike design as a failure then move on. Technology has helped with this along with the addition of the skilled Chinese mfrs in the past few decade or two.

After the planned assassination of the 26r, the 29r though testimonially better for many, is still not the heir to the 26r. for example my kids both ride older 26rs, one is 4'10" and the other is 5'4", neither could step up from a 24" wheel to 29". Which is where the 27.5 comes in, still not a transition bike for the younger, but much more reasonable for the older. The 27.5+ serves a relatively small niche in the community at the moment, but I think that will grow as casual riders will perceive their skills are improving, as they'll roll over everything with their 3" tires and 120mm travel. Bike companies are trying to make riding skills less important with bikes like the 27.5+, which I'm not sure if it good or bad at the moment.

I don't think consumers are trying to figure out what they want. Its not like bike companies had focus groups and brainstorming sessions where consumers were overwhelming communicating a need for 27.5", or whatever size, wheels. Don't think its ever been that kind of industry. Bike companies come up with stuff convince you that its better and you need it (bike industry is not the only one that does this). And I have to ask, does your 27.5" bike ride better than your old 26 because of wheel size, or the evolution in bike geometry (i.e. slacker head angles, longer reach, shorter stem, etc.) and improving suspension?

This plus-sized thing comes directly from the fat bikes. The industry is trying to sell you all the benefits of a fat tire, but with better rolling efficiency. But your not getting all the benefits of a fat bike though.

 

[jimf]

I don't think consumers are trying to figure out what they want. Its not like bike companies had focus groups and brainstorming sessions where consumers were overwhelming communicating a need for 27.5", or whatever size, wheels. Don't think its ever been that kind of industry. Bike companies come up with stuff convince you that its better and you need it (bike industry is not the only one that does this). And I have to ask, does your 27.5" bike ride better than your old 26 because of wheel size, or the evolution in bike geometry (i.e. slacker head angles, longer reach, shorter stem, etc.) and improving suspension?

This plus-sized thing comes directly from the fat bikes. The industry is trying to sell you all the benefits of a fat tire, but with better rolling efficiency. But your not getting all the benefits of a fat bike though.

I agree with your industry take, I would go even further that the industry is attempting to obsolete your gear or work on the psychology of purchase decisions by making you feel like your old gear is not quite as good or clearly dating it. Sports franchises do this by slightly changing the jerseys each year(see stripe widths on Messi jerseys same goes for NFL, NBA and college is completely out of control with the Oregon "Nike" Ducks) That said, there are times that changes are innovative, I hated 29ers for their mac truck feel initially but the new geo's and shorter chainstay models are really quite nice. I bought a 27.5 bronson recently, not because of the wheels size, but because I wanted something beefier(old bike was a 26 anthem from 09) and there is not a lot of choice in 26 at this stage of the game and I am still not sold on 29er's. Interesting thing happened, after about 100 miles in on the bronson I brought it for its month check up and went back to riding the anthem. I thought I was going to hate it and I found I had a whole new appreciation for how that bike handled. Still way too twitchy up front but very maneuverable and a sweet ride in a completely different way than the Bronson. In many ways the 27.5 to me does not feel all that different than a 29er. I have been surprised at how big the Bronson feels but it is way stable and I really like the geo. I am going to keep riding both bikes

Not sure where I am going with this but I think its this, industry is constantly trying to sell something new, sometimes its innovative and other times its crap but I just like to ride bikes. I do want to rent a 27.5+ and see what its like, just because. I also think I want a short chainstay 29er hardtail but I may be lying to myself.

 

[Dingo]

I fail to see the utility of 27+. None of the benefits of a full fat bike, slower rolling than standard tire, a compromise (just like 27.5). Why not just get a properly sorted FS bike?

I have a nicely speced 29er FS along with 2 complete wheel sets ready to roll. The 27.5+ seems like it would make a nice fun bike to play around with at places like sourlands, even c-rock.
Just anotha bike in the quiver, not a be all do all.

 

[The Kalmyk]

I agree with your industry take, I would go even further that the industry is attempting to obsolete your gear or work on the psychology of purchase decisions by making you feel like your old gear is not quite as good or clearly dating it .

Very good @jimf .

 

[gtluke]

I agree with your industry take, I would go even further that the industry is attempting to obsolete your gear or work on the psychology of purchase decisions by making you feel like your old gear is not quite as good or clearly dating it. Sports franchises do this by slightly changing the jerseys each year(see stripe widths on Messi jerseys same goes for NFL, NBA and college is completely out of control with the Oregon "Nike" Ducks) That said, there are times that changes are innovative, I hated 29ers for their mac truck feel initially but the new geo's and shorter chainstay models are really quite nice. I bought a 27.5 bronson recently, not because of the wheels size, but because I wanted something beefier(old bike was a 26 anthem from 09) and there is not a lot of choice in 26 at this stage of the game and I am still not sold on 29er's. Interesting thing happened, after about 100 miles in on the bronson I brought it for its month check up and went back to riding the anthem. I thought I was going to hate it and I found I had a whole new appreciation for how that bike handled. Still way too twitchy up front but very maneuverable and a sweet ride in a completely different way than the Bronson. In many ways the 27.5 to me does not feel all that different than a 29er. I have been surprised at how big the Bronson feels but it is way stable and I really like the geo. I am going to keep riding both bikes

Not sure where I am going with this but I think its this, industry is constantly trying to sell something new, sometimes its innovative and other times its crap but I just like to ride bikes. I do want to rent a 27.5+ and see what its like, just because. I also think I want a short chainstay 29er hardtail but I may be lying to myself.

hmm, you want an el mariachi. really. we share the same ideas on the 26 and 29 thing. I was riding a 2009ish trance for a while, 26". I go back and forth and all around with my wheel sizes. The handling of a 26" bike is so under appreciated. Generally, people go from low end 26ers to mid to high end 29ers as they progress through their cycling addiction. They get back on their cheapo 26 and say it sucks, and then profess 29ers for the rest of their lives. Gotta get on a nice full suspension 26" to really appreciate it. They turn so much better without all that spinning mass. I find my 27.5 Mojo to be a good compromise. It turns well and the larger wheels do help ease the ride and prevent some fatigue. Curious how this works with the 27+ bikes, it's more mass, and roughly the same diameter as a 29er.
I'd like to demo a full suspension 26+ and 27+ at chimney rock.

 

[The Kalmyk]

The bigger picture says 26inch is alive and well. Maybe just not here or in the form of high performance materials. The Asian market will always want/need the 26 inch wheel. And in regards to bicycles they are light years ahead of us in using bicycles as a primary source of transportation.

 

[qclabrat]

The bigger picture says 26inch is alive and well. Maybe just not here or in the form of high performance materials. The Asian market will always want/need the 26 inch wheel. And in regards to bicycles they are light years ahead of us in using bicycles as a primary source of transportation.

agree 26" specs won't die complete, but all are very low end, the mid-high end stuff is no longer being made except for DH. I've stocked up on some 26" goodies recently, despite the recommendations here. Still looking for a primo fork with more squish.

 

[skyrokz]

While everyone makes a good point, I personally think the more options there are, better off the consumer. If anyone wants to ride their 26" bike for the rest of their life, go for it, no one is forcing a new bike on yee. All the different tire sizes and wheel sizes just give the consumer a more suitable option to their riding style, if it wasn't for the companies pumping out new designs and new component standards we'd still be riding 26ers, just a few years ago 29er were a "fad" but now I see 50 29/27.5ers to every 26er on the trails. I personally support all the companies that are willing to spend some of their profits on R+D. Every aspect of mountain biking IMO is extremely subjective, while some people don't see the need or benefits of a B+ wheel tire combo, I personally don't understand why you would ride a rigid hardtail and put stress on your back and knees when suspensions have come such a long way and make the ride so much comfortable. To each is own but I don't think anyone should stand in way of innovation.

 

[mattybfat]

just a few years ago 29er were a "fad" but now I see 50 29/27.5ers to every 26er on the trails.

If you want the truth 29er was introduced in 1981 to fisher and kelly by Geoff Apps who built a 700c off road bike. Later in 91 someone else made one called the project. It wasn't till fisher made his two niner in 2001 that it started mainstreaming, a little more then a few years. 650b was developed in, wait for it, 1984!

 

[skyrokz]

If you want the truth 29er was introduced in 1981 to fisher and kelly by Geoff Apps who built a 700c off road bike. Later in 91 someone else made one called the project. It wasn't till fisher made his two niner in 2001 that it started mainstreaming, a little more then a few years. 650b was developed in, wait for it, 1984!

My point exactly, some "crazy" guy developed this "crazy" concept and here we are 30 some odd years later reaping the benefits. If it wasn't for someone thiking outside the box we wouldn't have all the options we have today. That's why I think it's a little unfair to insta-bash companies as trying to outdate your gear so you keep buying new shit, don't like it or its not for you don't buy it. Simple

 

[soundz]

The bike industry can try to dictate where they want the industry to go, but the consumers have the final say for the most part. If no one bought 29ers or 27.5ers or fat bikes, the bike industry would have stopped making them long time ago, and we would be stuck with 26ers (which in my mind is not the end of the world). If no one buys 27.5+ bikes, it will die a quick death, but for some reason, I have a feeling it will have decent sales.

In my mind having a lot of choices is not a bad thing. If the consumer can't control their pocketbook, too bad for the consumer.

 

[Norm]

That's not totally true.

The manufacturers force the issue by changing standards with new bike sales. Cross bikes without disc brakes are hard to find in a bike shop now. When you no longer offer a bike with a specific component that component will die in time.

 

[soundz]

That's not totally true.

The manufacturers force the issue by changing standards with new bike sales. Cross bikes without disc brakes are hard to find in a bike shop now. When you no longer offer a bike with a specific component that component will die in time.

I actually thought of this specific type of issue when I was writing my post .. and added the "for the most part" bit. So yah I agree there are cases where consumers are not given choice, unless a large number of them are willing to go through hoops.

 

[skyrokz]

That's not totally true.

The manufacturers force the issue by changing standards with new bike sales. Cross bikes without disc brakes are hard to find in a bike shop now. When you no longer offer a bike with a specific component that component will die in time.

agreed to extent, it's all about supply and demand, if there is no demand for rim brakes or very little & if disk brakes will appeal to a larger group of people, the bike mfg. will put discs on, or risk loosing sales to another brand that sells cross bikes with discs and uses that feature as a selling point. if a product or component becomes in less of a demand eventually they will phase it out, its not a dick move IMO, for example would you like to spend thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars for inventory of suspension forks that might become obsolete next year because SRAM might come out with a new fork made of some sick composite that holds an integrated braking system and weighs 2lbs less? or would you like SRAM not to make a fork like that because it might render your current setup obsolete?

 

[mattybfat]

You know what part pisses me off the most

Fuggin bottom brackets they took a good thing and made it completely useless.

#tryingtostaysquaretaper4life

 

[qclabrat]

That's not totally true.

The manufacturers force the issue by changing standards with new bike sales. Cross bikes without disc brakes are hard to find in a bike shop now. When you no longer offer a bike with a specific component that component will die in time.

good point, An example is the demise of the 26r, if the bigs were to continued making them, I'd believe there would still be a reasonable market for them even with it's two larger siblings. I'm still in the camp that the 27.5 isn't a real replacement of the 26 or 29, it's a cross-over which does what the two other do well but not as good. But that's speaking for a shorter rider, like myself. I'd imagine anyone in the 6 feet plus range may feel the 26 are too small.

What I really never understood were the 29+, unless you're fairly tall it must feel awkward to ride, 27.5+ makes more sense, and if I were to lay a bet, it will be a clear winner over the larger version.

 

[Dingo]

I'm feeling the planed obsolescence, my perfectly good 29er has a one 1/8 steertube. Try to find a a new Fox or RS fork for that.
26 are dead to me, will never own another one, I'm over 6foot I fit on those like a circus monkey.

 

[JimN]

I'll be rocking the Stumpjumper 6Fattie out west in two weeks and will post up my impressions of it. 27.5+ sounds great to me but that's a lot of extra rotational weight. Not sure if the extra traction will be worth it or not. If I went 27.5+ I would likely buy a 2016 Horsethief 29er and then buy 27.5+ wheels for it.

 

[Monkey Soup]

That's not totally true.

The manufacturers force the issue by changing standards with new bike sales. Cross bikes without disc brakes are hard to find in a bike shop now. When you no longer offer a bike with a specific component that component will die in time.

Manufacturers are totally forcing the issue these days. Discs brakes are a bad example, because they actually work better than rim brakes. Plus-sized tires will not replace or obsolete anything, but the whole 27.5 thing was completely stupid, sorry. And yes I realize it's a done deal and my next bike will likely be a 27.5 because I have little other choice. Fuck the industry.