Tariffs...what to make of them.

[stb222]

I thought he supported his points. He wasn't swaying from his view. Pierce just seemed like he was trying to overwhelm him.

I get it Dave, you are trolling and just trying to get a rise. But are you really going to defend his anti semitic views? I am ok with have an objective view but he challenged the numbers from the holocaust saying "it just isn't mathematically possible". Get support before making a claim for clicks.

 

[John the Plumber]

I'd say their rights to due process and a speedy trial were trampled.

So, they bear sprayed, beat with flags that were on hockey sticks, stole a taser. All this to police officers. Broke windows, doors, damaged the building and stole items. So, you would be Okay with that if it happens to your home. This is just some of the things that the insurrectionist did. I am sure the MAGA people would be on a different side if it were BLM were to storm the Congress building. The hypocrisy of you all, about J6. Bless your little heart.

 

[Bike N Gear]

So, they bear sprayed, beat with flags that were on hockey sticks, stole a taser. All this to police officers. Broke windows, doors, damaged the building and stole items. So, you would be Okay with that if it happens to your home. This is just some of the things that the insurrectionist did. I am sure the MAGA people would be on a different side if it were BLM were to storm the Congress building. The hypocrisy of you all, about J6. Bless your little heart.

"It was a day of love."

 

[scott62]

So, they bear sprayed, beat with flags that were on hockey sticks, stole a taser. All this to police officers. Broke windows, doors, damaged the building and stole items. So, you would be Okay with that if it happens to your home. This is just some of the things that the insurrectionist did. I am sure the MAGA people would be on a different side if it were BLM were to storm the Congress building. The hypocrisy of you all, about J6. Bless your little heart.

You forgot something, the proud boys were using wasps spray, that’s why the cops died. Seems it’s not healthy to take bug spray in the face. Always wondered why the media did not make more of that.

 

[Santapez]

You forgot something, the proud boys were using wasps spray, that’s why the cops died. Seems it’s not healthy to take bug spray in the face. Always wondered why the media did not make more of that.

Man, went down the rabbit hole reading about the wasp spray. I don't think any actual cop deaths can be directly attributed to being sprayed.

If they sprayed cops with pepper spray you could convince me they normally carry it for personal protection and not a weapon. Bunch of guys bringing wasp spray? Clearly planning something.

Pardoning the really bad people was just... Nuts. Would it take more than 10 minutes to compile the list of "These people seem horrible and deserving of their sentences, let them rot." To skip pardons on them?

 

[Dave Taylor]

I carry bear spray for when I open the newark yard gates at 5am …just sayin

 

[UtahJoe]

A ton of outrage? I don't see a 43 page thread devoted to that outrage anywhere. I bet if it was under tRumps watch though, this thread would be 300 pages. And people should be outraged over Gaza, even though the situation is way more nuanced than this black and white narrative. But what about the ongoing genocide against the Uyghurs or the ethnic cleansing in Nagorno-Karabakh (those Armenians have been fucked since 1914), where's the protest and outrage? My point is we pick and choose, or its chosen for us, what to be outraged about because it fits a particular narrative.

I'm no Zionist, but Jews didn't get the land through terrorism, you need to keep in mind their point of view, they've been there for the last 4000 years. Comes back to nuance and looking at other perspectives.

And stop using WWII as an example, BOTH sides bombed civilian cities. The Nazis firebombed London for 8 months while they were trying to break them.

Did the Afghanistan pull out happen this week? Bc the ass fucking of Ukraine seems to be CURRENTLY happening

From what I have been reading, putin is going to declare victory on the 24th... Yikes.. Hope that is just bullshit

 

[scott62]

Man, went down the rabbit hole reading about the wasp spray. I don't think any actual cop deaths can be directly attributed to being sprayed.

If they sprayed cops with pepper spray you could convince me they normally carry it for personal protection and not a weapon. Bunch of guys bringing wasp spray? Clearly planning something.

Pardoning the really bad people was just... Nuts. Would it take more than 10 minutes to compile the list of "These people seem horrible and deserving of their sentences, let them rot." To skip pardons on them?

 

[Santapez]

View attachment 255956

Yeah, that's what I looked up. Multiple people came with wasp spray and used it. Only Molony and Lewis seem to be 100% comfirmed using wasp spray. I think Troy Allen got mixed in with wasp spray as the media headlines put it all together as headlines would mix the two up such as "2 men accused of assaulting offers with flag pole, wasp spray during Capitol riot" when one guy used wasp spray, one guy used a metal pole. Details, and honestly you're an asshole if it's wasp spray, a flagpole or combo of the two and I don't believe you deserve a pardon.

Just saying I don't think there was any deaths attributed to it. The cop that died the next day of a heart attack was sprayed with pepper spray not wasp spray, I don't believe he was sprayed by those guys. The others died mostly of suicide. The cop who got hit in the head with the pole and eventually committed suicide apparently was never the same after getting hit in the head.

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

Did the Afghanistan pull out happen this week? Bc the ass fucking of Ukraine seems to be CURRENTLY happening

From what I have been reading, putin is going to declare victory on the 24th... Yikes.. Hope that is just bullshit

Ukraine has been happening for the last 4 years, and we've done zero to help resolve it other than arm them and spend billions, basically using the Ukraine to fight a proxy war against Russia, once again. There has been zero substantive diplomacy conducted by the prior administration to actually try to stop the fighting. I'll wait to see what actually happens, vs. what is said, over the next year or so before I pass any type of judgement on the current administration.

Also, the situation with the Uyghurs and Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh is happening right now, and there's lots of other bad shit happening also (the Sudan for example), but I guess since none of it can be politicized to use as a pro/con example for our politician(s) of choice, we can continue to pretend that we have some sort of moral high-ground to defend when we discuss Gaza and the Ukraine.

 

[Bike N Gear]

Also, the situation with the Uyghurs and Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh is happening right now, and there's lots of other bad shit happening also (the Sudan for example), but I guess since none of it can be politicized to use as a pro/con example for our politician(s) of choice, we can continue to pretend that we have some sort of moral high-ground to defend when we discuss Gaza and the Ukraine.

If it's not on the news every day, no one even knows about it.

 

[the schwartz]

I think the parallel to Israel/Gaza is if the US just kept the Japanese in the internment camps and never let them out.

Gaza has a border with Egypt.


Your parallel is pretty wild, there is no parallel there. I don't know a lot about Japanese Americans during WW2, but think they were by and large, if not all, just regular people who happened to have Japanese heritage. it was a gross injustice. I do know they were not blowing themselves and others up, stabbing, vehicular ramming, rocketing, what have you.

When you have a population literally at your doorstep committing these acts then yes, the border will be sealed.

It's this matter of proximity and literal existential threat that also makes comparisons to US operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, anywhere also meaningless. It's just not comparable.

 

[scott62]

Any and I mean any government based on religion is bound to sh*t people not of that religion. There is no greater reason to do evil than religion. God told me to kill you so it’s ok😁

 

[THATmanMANNY]

Idiocracy (2006)

 

[Santapez]

Gaza has a border with Egypt.


Your parallel is pretty wild, there is no parallel there. I don't know a lot about Japanese Americans during WW2, but think they were by and large, if not all, just regular people who happened to have Japanese heritage. it was a gross injustice. I do know they were not blowing themselves and others up, stabbing, vehicular ramming, rocketing, what have you.

When you have a population literally at your doorstep committing these acts then yes, the border will be sealed.

It's this matter of proximity and literal existential threat that also makes comparisons to US operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, anywhere also meaningless. It's just not comparable.

Huh?

The people moved off their land onto the Gaza Strip were normal people too. That's why the comparison holds with the Japanese Americans.

The difference is we let the Japanese Americans out. Israel kept them there with no state and no Israel citizenship.

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

Huh?

The people moved off their land onto the Gaza Strip were normal people too. That's why the comparison holds with the Japanese Americans.

The difference is we let the Japanese Americans out. Israel kept them there with no state and no Israel cit

Still not a good analogy. Gaza was originally part of a larger territory that was lost to war with Egypt. Egypt refused to give the remaining residents citizenship, and the surrounding countries also refused them as well. Israel could have taken the entire territory because they won the war, but bowed to international pressure.

 

[the schwartz]

Huh?

The people moved off their land onto the Gaza Strip were normal people too. That's why the comparison holds with the Japanese Americans.

The difference is we let the Japanese Americans out. Israel kept them there with no state and no Israel citizenship.

and we're back to Egypt (and the rest of the Arab world, for that matter)... Egypt controlled the Gaza Strip for 20 years from 48-67, and nothing good happened for the people there at that time either:

• "The Egyptian government did not consider the area part of Egypt and did not allow the refugees to become Egyptian citizens or to migrate to Egypt or to other Arab countries where they might be integrated into the population." (Britannica).
• "Under Egyptian military control, Palestinian refugees in Gaza were stuck, homeless and stateless. Egypt didn’t consider them to be citizens and Israel wouldn’t let them return to their homes." (pbs)

should israel have let them become israeli citizens, then? keep in mind there were plenty of arab pogroms and violence against jews in decades prior: The Arab rejection of the British mandate and the pogroms of 1936-1948 (some French think tank website). i think that recently it's become fairly common for people to think, either explicitly or subconsciously, "of course they're going to rise up and intifada - look how they're oppressed" and so it's israel's fault for creating terrorists. it's a flawed model; none of the hostility is recent)

something to dig into: why won't Egypt or Jordan or any other Arab country take in Palestinians? i need to read more about this but afaik it's a mix of not wanting themin the first place, and wanting them to stay refugees and in poverty to pressure israel.



did arabs lose their land in 1948? yes absolutely - whether they were expelled, fled for safety, or fled because they were promised that it was temporary, the jews would all be dead soon (all of the above), many arabs lost their land when the state of israel was created . is that sad? yes. unfair? sure, it is. lots of things are unfair. does it mean that their descendants should have status as refugees in perpetuity? this is an entire other realm of discussion that is pretty fascinating and mind boggling - some opinions on permanent refugee status from a quora thread

does gaza need to be the hellhole it is today (and has been, well before the last 500 days of military operations)? probably not. random thread on reddit: who's responsible for making gaza poor?




to make sure we don't get off topic: in summary, tariff good; religion bad.

 

[Santapez]

and we're back to Egypt (and the rest of the Arab world, for that matter)... Egypt controlled the Gaza Strip for 20 years from 48-67, and nothing good happened for the people there at that time either:

• "The Egyptian government did not consider the area part of Egypt and did not allow the refugees to become Egyptian citizens or to migrate to Egypt or to other Arab countries where they might be integrated into the population." (Britannica).
• "Under Egyptian military control, Palestinian refugees in Gaza were stuck, homeless and stateless. Egypt didn’t consider them to be citizens and Israel wouldn’t let them return to their homes." (pbs)

should israel have let them become israeli citizens, then? keep in mind there were plenty of arab pogroms and violence against jews in decades prior: The Arab rejection of the British mandate and the pogroms of 1936-1948 (some French think tank website). i think that recently it's become fairly common for people to think, either explicitly or subconsciously, "of course they're going to rise up and intifada - look how they're oppressed" and so it's israel's fault for creating terrorists. it's a flawed model; none of the hostility is recent)

something to dig into: why won't Egypt or Jordan or any other Arab country take in Palestinians? i need to read more about this but afaik it's a mix of not wanting themin the first place, and wanting them to stay refugees and in poverty to pressure israel.



did arabs lose their land in 1948? yes absolutely - whether they were expelled, fled for safety, or fled because they were promised that it was temporary, the jews would all be dead soon (all of the above), many arabs lost their land when the state of israel was created . is that sad? yes. unfair? sure, it is. lots of things are unfair. does it mean that their descendants should have status as refugees in perpetuity? this is an entire other realm of discussion that is pretty fascinating and mind boggling - some opinions on permanent refugee status from a quora thread

does gaza need to be the hellhole it is today (and has been, well before the last 500 days of military operations)? probably not. random thread on reddit: who's responsible for making gaza poor?




to make sure we don't get off topic: in summary, tariff good; religion bad.

I think we agree on this way more than disagree. It's a long complicated situation with no easy solutions.

But Egypt and other countries not letting them in, that comes back to my original analogy. If we kept the Japanese Americans in the camps for decades and then were asking why other countries won't take them in? Egypt controlled that area, but those people didn't come from Egypt.

And while they're refugees, it's still their home. I'm not a huge fan of the Trump "Kick them out, turn it into Atlantic City" method or just a purgatory of refugee status.

And there is no off-topic. It's a Dave Taylor thread.

 

[Santapez]

Still not a good analogy. Gaza was originally part of a larger territory that was lost to war with Egypt. Egypt refused to give the remaining residents citizenship, and the surrounding countries also refused them as well. Israel could have taken the entire territory because they won the war, but bowed to international pressure.

I never said it's a perfect analogy. 🙂 It's just the best anyone can do to make it relate to US history...

That being said, y'all making me want to plan another trip to Israel. That warm winter...

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

I think we agree on this way more than disagree. It's a long complicated situation with no easy solutions.

But Egypt and other countries not letting them in, that comes back to my original analogy. If we kept the Japanese Americans in the camps for decades and then were asking why other countries won't take them in? Egypt controlled that area, but those people didn't come from Egypt.

And while they're refugees, it's still their home. I'm not a huge fan of the Trump "Kick them out, turn it into Atlantic City" method or just a purgatory of refugee status.

And there is no off-topic. It's a Dave Taylor thread.

I think what's driving the disagreement here is that the Japanese that we detained were citizens that we imprisoned on suspicion of spying, etc. then we let them go after the war. For your analogy to work, they would need to residents of a territory that we captured in the war, but Japan refused to take them back and repatriate them after the war.

I hear the riding in Israel is pretty good, and its a safer experience than most people think. I would personally like to visit one of the East African countries, maybe Kenya or Tanzania.