Norm and Utah...Dot the right Thing!

Norm said:
Also, since this is what all the promoters used to tell me when I complained, feel free to build a better mousetrap.
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Well since I was quoted I feel in can chime in. Your team should have graciously taken a DQ, inhaled a free lunch, drank a few beers and kept the victorious podium pictures private. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't MTBNJ have a few licensed USCF race officials on the team ? What call would they have made against a team not wearing jack o lantern orange and powder blue ?
If you had won by only 4 minutes and 10 seconds would you have done anything differently?
 
soulchild said:
Only one way to settle this.......


DANCE OFF!
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I think you meant "walk off" (zoolander). Since all he had to do was turn left.
 
Norm said:
Do you really think that will be productive? Honest answer.
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Productive? Hell No! But it would be entertaining as hell to listen to you spin this...We have heard from Utah on his feelings but the only time you have chimed in is to thank Maddawg for backing you...

I feel that your EGO got in the way here...In what should have been a day to celebrate your 2 teammates that actually won, you took their glory and smeared it in their face...as to say F U, you're not fast enough to beat me...Again LAME!
 
Sevenz said:
I feel that your EGO got in the way here...In what should have been a day to celebrate your 2 teammates that actually won, you took their glory and smeared it in their face...as to say F U, you're not fast enough to beat me...Again LAME!
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Can't you debate without getting ugly? Its ok to make points but there is no need to get nasty.
 
So what does Norm have to do? Was there prize money or points for anything? Does he have to publicly rescind his win and delete his podium pictures? Honest question.
 
That's not for me to decide...I'm sure his conscience will lead him in the right direction...

gtluke said:
So what does Norm have to do? Was there prize money or points for anything? Does he have to publicly rescind his win and delete his podium pictures? Honest question.
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Ofar said:
So my team finished 3rd, I guess this post bumps us up to 2nd place.
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I think you should be satisfied with third place. If Steve and I didn't make a wrong turn and if Aaron doesn't have a mechanical, you would have finished in sixth. After all, you were 8 minutes behind Kirt and 26er. It wasn't like you were setting the course on fire.
 
Another person misses the point!!! Shaking Head


dc29 said:
I think you should be satisfied with third place. If Steve and I didn't make a wrong turn and if Aaron doesn't have a mechanical, you would have finished in sixth. After all, you were 8 minutes behind Kirt and 26er. It wasn't like you were setting the course on fire.
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Sevenz said:
Another person misses the point!!! Shaking Head
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I get the point, but your friends should have protested yesterday at the race, and not waited to have you post a thread the day after. Calling someone out over the internet is pretty lame.
 
Sevenz said:
Productive? Hell No! But it would be entertaining as hell to listen to you spin this...We have heard from Utah on his feelings but the only time you have chimed in is to thank Maddawg for backing you...

I feel that your EGO got in the way here...In what should have been a day to celebrate your 2 teammates that actually won, you took their glory and smeared it in their face...as to say F U, you're not fast enough to beat me...Again LAME!
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After I finished I rolled up to Mike and told him the deal - which was that I didn't know, but I *thought* I may have missed a turn. I wasn't sure about it, I had no idea where I could have missed it. But, I told him if he needed to DQ me, he needed to do what he needed to do. He explained his decision to everyone here. You obviously don't like it, which is fine and you're free to state your opinion.

But those are the basic facts. I was unsure. Immediately after I finished I went to the promoter and told him what I knew. Then he made a decision. I did not know if I was on course or not. I wasn't going to "stand up" and DQ myself if I really didn't even know if I did anything wrong. Would you have done any differently? Be honest.

At this point, I can petition the King of Siam to relinquish the crown. Mike has said the results are final, and they will go down in history this way. I could send my hat to Kirt, or just deliver it to his house instead. I can donate the money to Habitat for Humanity. But none of that will change the fact that the results will list us as first, for eternity. That is completely out of my control.

If they want to reverse the decision and DQ me, truthfully I don't care. Like I said 30 seconds after I finished my lap, they gotta do what they gotta do.
 
walter said:
What's lame is looking two friends in the face as you stand where they should be.
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Lol, holy hell,ease up on the sanctimonious bullshit Rush Limbaugh

If norm had not told maddawg what happened asap and presented the facts, yes then you would be correct. But he did and a decision was made. You are implying that he did something dishonest and that is the only reason im even responding. Look it doesnt matter to me, I ran a 1:34min lap which im quite happy with...if my name is moved to the DNF column, makes no difference. Chicken was awesome and so were the ice pops, dont really care where my name is on the sheet.
 
It's clear the riders should have DQ'ed, but I think you're targeting the wrong people. It seems the riders honestly addressed what was likely an honest mistake with the organizers.

This ultimately falls on the organizers who made the call. They obviously dropped the ball here by letting the results stand despite knowing about the course cut and should fix their mistake, if only to maintain the legitimacy of their events.

And let's not act like no one cares here. This race may not be the olympics but it's still a big deal to the participants and likely to the organizers too. This whole site is full of cycling fanatics who put a lot of time, money, and effort into the sport. Just look at all the personal training blogs (and now podcasts?) people write up on an almost daily basis documenting their ultimate goal of getting faster and landing on the podium. How many other amateur groups do that outside of cycling? How many other sports have such active communities like cycling does?

I don't race. But if I did, I'd be pissed too.
 
The course was Not marked great and His mileage was on par with everyone else's. And I can tell you first hand he was FLYING.

Norm was leading when the cut happened.
Norm finished, immediately went to promoter and said he may have missed a turn. This really gets him out of jail.
The Promoter (Who is a stand up guy as anyone will tell you) made the call that based on the mileage on the Garmin, there was no need to DQ. Again, NOBODY saw the map print out with the section that was clearly missed till the files were uploaded.


Its a shame this happened, but I really think if you look at the facts, there was no malicious intent here.

PS, I was rooting for Clapp and Rob so this is a pretty unbiased opinion.
 
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cuda said:
And let's not act like no one cares here. .
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Im being 100% honest when I say this....If maddawg said to me "you can enter my races, but I will always score you as a dnf" I would still be at everyone and still pay to enter. They are that much fun.
 
cuda said:
They obviously dropped the ball here by letting the results stand despite knowing about the course cut and should fix their mistake, if only to maintain the legitimacy of their events.
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I dont think anybody knew for 100% that the course was cut though. Garmins can easily be off by 2-3 miles on a 20 mile loop. Nobody knew till Norm posted his race on strava.
 
though the universe may implode entertaining the thought that I could possibly be the voice of reason here, it seems as though the horse has jumped the shark, broken it's neck, and is still being bludgeoned...

:lock: it up and let's move on...
 
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I can't let this be locked yet. I think it's obvious that people have more to say. Again, I don't want people to think we're squashing their voice. I'm totally open to let people say what they want to say.

Please just keep it civil.
 
I see lots of mad peoples up n hurr ...

SEVENZ YOU MAD BRO ? THEY DID THE RIGHT THING , GET OVER IT...

THIS IS WHY I LIKE TO DOWNHILL LOL
 
Again, norm was up front with me when he finished.
he thought he may have missed a section due to his GPS data. i looked at it and we discussed the course. we couldn't come up with where he may have missed.
i have ridden the course more times then i want to remember in the last 3 months doing maintenance and markings etc.. i get various distances on my garmin.
the results were posted and Utah was listed on the wrong team and Norm wasn't listed at all. it was merely a transposing error.
i added them on and hand wrote in their time. i stapled it back to the board with the places adjusted. the fact that they were left off was an error on our part.

i personally marked the course. George put out all the cones at the road crossings. there were 300 arrows and 4 rolls of shimano tape out there. i apologize if some of it wasn't clear or got damaged. we try very hard to make the course markings as clear as possible.

again, it was my call and i made it.
i can understand the feelings on both sides.
we do our best to put out the best event possible. sometimes it doesn't always work out that way. i can assure you that there was no maliciousness,
no conspiracy's, no secret handshakes.
i still had to get up this am and be in my office for the job that pays my mortgage.
 
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