How the hell are we supposed to retire?

Santapez

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
I was interviewing for a while in Raleigh but I'd need to make almost double to offset my wife making half as a teacher down there.
I think that echo's @jimvreeland experience.

I know in my town I think the teachers max out at like 45k. That's insane. It leads to the issues that you can't live in a town you work in.

They definitely pay less for public employees. Seems private sector isn't much less or different if it's in any urban area like Raleigh. But then those areas tend to basically be NJ with nicer weather.

Anyone considering leaving NJ needs to look at the whole package of where they're going. Just moving because of $$ probably won't leave to happiness.

Lean from @rick81721 . He moved to FL and is even more salty. ;)
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
Because I can move that into the "Go on awesome trips" budget instead of "feed the tax monster budget".

Didn't Rick sell, or is in the process of selling?


Yeah, a lot easier to retire when that expense isn't there every year.
But don’t you have to pay rent? Or do you not pay property taxes?
 

JerseyPete

Well-Known Member
There are a lot of things that you can't always find on a website. The recent power outages in NC had me thinking about what other issues would come up that I would not have thought of.
And before anyone says it, yes I know Sandy had us without power for 11 days and Nor'easter storms take out power as well as "state of emergency" stay home orders.
Without knowing people in the NC or FL areas, how would you find out the frequency and duration of loss of power?
Then there are the issues of how far to drive for good food, dentists, medical, etc. and how do you quantify what is "good" without knowing people from NJ that are in NC or FL that can give valid comparisons? And I am not just talking about bagels and pizza.
 

Steve Vai

Endurance Guy: Tolerates most of us.
I think that echo's @jimvreeland experience.

I know in my town I think the teachers max out at like 45k. That's insane. It leads to the issues that you can't live in a town you work in.

They definitely pay less for public employees. Seems private sector isn't much less or different if it's in any urban area like Raleigh. But then those areas tend to basically be NJ with nicer weather.

Anyone considering leaving NJ needs to look at the whole package of where they're going. Just moving because of $$ probably won't leave to happiness.

Lean from @rick81721 . He moved to FL and is even more salty. ;)

A retired NJ teacher's Pension is more than a NC teacher makes while working. It's absurd how low the pay is. But down there they just study the bible and vote Red so Education is kind of wasted on them anyway 🤣
 

rick81721

Lothar
There are a lot of things that you can't always find on a website. The recent power outages in NC had me thinking about what other issues would come up that I would not have thought of.
And before anyone says it, yes I know Sandy had us without power for 11 days and Nor'easter storms take out power as well as "state of emergency" stay home orders.
Without knowing people in the NC or FL areas, how would you find out the frequency and duration of loss of power?
Then there are the issues of how far to drive for good food, dentists, medical, etc. and how do you quantify what is "good" without knowing people from NJ that are in NC or FL that can give valid comparisons? And I am not just talking about bagels and pizza.

After a near direct hit of Ian in our area in Oct, we were without power for less than 3 days. Sandy hitting NJ and being 30 miles from the coast our power was out for over a week longer.
 

mntal

Active Member
I think that echo's @jimvreeland experience.

I know in my town I think the teachers max out at like 45k. That's insane. It leads to the issues that you can't live in a town you work in.

They definitely pay less for public employees. Seems private sector isn't much less or different if it's in any urban area like Raleigh. But then those areas tend to basically be NJ with nicer weather.

Anyone considering leaving NJ needs to look at the whole package of where they're going. Just moving because of $$ probably won't leave to happiness.

Lean from @rick81721 . He moved to FL and is even more salty. ;)
If public education simply delivered education however, instead of having turned into a progressive pig pen, perhaps education would attract better talent and be more in-demand, which would drive salaries. The general public doesn't value education in general, and perceived and/or delivered value is what drives the market - that's in anything of course, cars, houses etc - including education. Teaching at this point attracts mainly those who can't cut it in the business world.
 

Santapez

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
There are a lot of things that you can't always find on a website. The recent power outages in NC had me thinking about what other issues would come up that I would not have thought of.
And before anyone says it, yes I know Sandy had us without power for 11 days and Nor'easter storms take out power as well as "state of emergency" stay home orders.
Without knowing people in the NC or FL areas, how would you find out the frequency and duration of loss of power?
Then there are the issues of how far to drive for good food, dentists, medical, etc. and how do you quantify what is "good" without knowing people from NJ that are in NC or FL that can give valid comparisons? And I am not just talking about bagels and pizza.
That's one reason why you visit a place often before just moving there, and finding more about it. It's also why when people move they move where they already had friends/family move to an area. One of the reasons we picked this area is we knew people from our town in NJ that happened to move here so we had that insight.

I don't hate on NJ and it has a lot of great points but if I didn't live in the US and I had to pick a place to live, suburban NJ would not be it.

With the natural disasters, NJ escapes some but not all. West of the rockies you seem to now have wildfires, lack of water, brownouts (human made) etc. Water pipes broke in a bunch of places in the South this week and it's all in the news, but it's not like that doesn't happen up north. It's news because it rarely happens. But storms like Sandy completely broke the state and cost billions (trillions?) to fix, but those aren't really common.

If you head out of state, do lots of research. Even if you move to the right area you could be in a spot you hate. For example, let's say you move to NJ. There's such a huge difference in neighborhoods/towns that you could love/hate the area with a slight change. It's so different between Bergen/Essex/Morris/Sussex and then even on the smaller scale of in towns.
 

stb222

Love Drunk
Jerk Squad
I have a house. Patrick was basically saying it's OK if you budget it all in. I'd rather budget the 2k for my taxes here and 10k for bikes and trips every year than 12k in NJ property taxes.
2k is definitely a savings, I am interested how close you are to the closest shopping/town that has all the stuff you need to buy.

Looking at things at a state level is tough, I know a few people in CLT area that pay more property taxes on a similar house than they did in NJ.
 

Santapez

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
2k is definitely a savings, I am interested how close you are to the closest shopping/town that has all the stuff you need to buy.

Looking at things at a state level is tough, I know a few people in CLT area that pay more property taxes on a similar house than they did in NJ.
Me personally? I wanted to buy in the downtown but even if money was no object, the real estate market is hard down here. We really lucked out getting what we did and while it wasn't the area we were shooting for, we're really happy with it. The neighborhood wasn't originally on the radar but it's good.

Walking to town is far but the bike path is at the end of our street. It goes into downtown and into Pisgah.

Coffee shops - Closest within walking distance is Starbucks. The 3-4 that are in downtown are a 2 minute drive or 5 minute bike ride or 20 minute run.
Coffee Roaster - Downtown there's one, 10 minute drive is another.
Restaurants Downtown - 5 mexican, few American, couple breakfast type places, 2 bakeries, 1 Vietnamese, 1 Thai.
Restaurants near - Really good Japanese is a 3-4 minute drive. Everything else is probably 20-25 minutes if we go towards Hendersonville or 30-40 minutes if we're going up to Asheville.
Clothing stores - Downtown has a big outdoors store. REI is 22 miles away along with generic store shopping.
Hardware stores - Downtown there's an Ace Hardware. 1.5 miles is a Lowes where they probably know us by name. Home Depot is 30-35 minutes.
Within a few minute drive we have Walmart, 3 grocery stores, a food co-op that's like a Whole Foods except the food choices are better.
Mountain Biking - 10 minute bike ride to Pisgah or 5 minute car ride to there. Under 20 minutes to Dupont depending on which lot. Bracken in town is a 5 minute drive or ride there via bike path.
Hospital - Local hospital is 1.5 miles away. .25 miles if I could go through the woods.
Breweries - I think there's 4 in town. Two are on the bike path and are huge. Oskar Blues often has live music, food truck and anywhere from 10-100 people. Ecusta Brewing is always packed and only been there once. NobleBrau in town is good and they opened up a whole music venue there so it's nice to just into town and see good live bands.
Movie Theaters - Small one in town, near REI is the big 12 screen imax one or whatever.
The restaurants are funny. I keep joking I need to make a spreadsheet as to what's open as their schedules are all wonky. Especially Sunday/Monday/Tuesday.

We really hadn't needed to go far to buy stuff, except the one time we needed shelves at Home Depot that Lowes was out of, or we just bought an on-sale townie bike at REI. There's no regular staples we need to drive anywhere for that I can think of. If we need to go somewhere we tend to make a day out of it and hit up an oddball restaurant or something while doing so.

The one thing I'd say is it's way less stressful going places. We were probably 10 minutes from REI where we lived in Morristown but the drive there was stressful with getting on the highway, asshole drivers, etc. The drive to REI is 30 minutes and less stressful.

So far the only thing I really miss is easy access to Trader Joe's, that's like 45 minutes away and something we'd only really want to hit if we're in Asheville for some other reason.
 

Patrick

Overthinking the draft from the basement already
Staff member
After a near direct hit of Ian in our area in Oct, we were without power for less than 3 days. Sandy hitting NJ and being 30 miles from the coast our power was out for over a week longer.

single points of data are useless.

 

rick81721

Lothar
single points of data are useless.


Well duh, of course with all the thunderstorms and hurricanes. But I thought you were the king of anecdotal data? :D In any event, the question was regarding how long power stayed out. FL does a great job of turning it back on after a major hurricane. But we will soon have solar power and backup battery storage so won't even have to worry about that.
 

Santapez

Well-Known Member
Team MTBNJ Halter's
single points of data are useless.

But also generalizations can be useless.

Asheville has a ton of water main breaks this past week from frozen pipes. Seems like the Charlotte and Raleigh area have a ton of power and water issues.

I had no issues. But if I was 5 miles away on the mountains I could easily lose power for days in a snow storm.

When I was in Morristown with Sandy the surrounding areas lost power for awhile and our town was bustling with activity as we never had a blip. But another time during a windy storm there was no physical way to get into town and I had to park two miles away.

2016. I remember that well as I had my arm in a sling from a broken collarbone and just went food shopping so I had to carry all that food home with one arm.

edit: phone spelling.
 
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JerseyPete

Well-Known Member
That's one reason why you visit a place often before just moving there, and finding more about it. It's also why when people move they move where they already had friends/family move to an area. One of the reasons we picked this area is we knew people from our town in NJ that happened to move here so we had that insight.

I don't hate on NJ and it has a lot of great points but if I didn't live in the US and I had to pick a place to live, suburban NJ would not be it.

With the natural disasters, NJ escapes some but not all. West of the rockies you seem to now have wildfires, lack of water, brownouts (human made) etc. Water pipes broke in a bunch of places in the South this week and it's all in the news, but it's not like that doesn't happen up north. It's news because it rarely happens. But storms like Sandy completely broke the state and cost billions (trillions?) to fix, but those aren't really common.

If you head out of state, do lots of research. Even if you move to the right area you could be in a spot you hate. For example, let's say you move to NJ. There's such a huge difference in neighborhoods/towns that you could love/hate the area with a slight change. It's so different between Bergen/Essex/Morris/Sussex and then even on the smaller scale of in towns.
All valid points. I like NJ a lot and there is something to be said about having major cities nearby with top medical care. My wife recently had a procedure (fully recovered) and when Googling the best place to have it done, Columbia Presbyterian always came up first.
When my late father had a stroke, he was taken to Holy Name in Teaneck and they sent him immediately into NYC. He had major occluded carotid arteries. They did the surgery saying he had a 50% chance. Other loss of feeling in his hands and the 4 inch scars on the sides of his neck, he recovered well and you would not know he suffered a stroke. Again, nearby medical is key as you get older.
I have a couple more years of research before I can make a decision. My wife knows people in Naples and Venice FL (not Rick) and we both know people in Raleigh NC area. I think we are leaning towards FL but will have to spend some time there to really decide. Of course if my son settles down here in NJ we may wind up staying and dealing with the 10K in taxes, 2K in car insurance, and all else that goes with it and keeps going up.
 

1TrackMind

Well-Known Member
States gaining and losing population from 2021 to 2022 - biggest winner = FL with 1.9% growth. NC was #9. Biggest loser = NY with -0.9% growth. NJ lost 6000 residents.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/2022-population-estimates.html
I really wonder what Florida will be like in 15 years when the boomers die off? Is its job sector diversified enough to make it to the next population bubble getting old? Will the housing market dip in between population bubbles? Are they doing anything to try to prepare for a die off? I’m thinking so many jobs are centered around old people that when they do die it will have significant impact on that economy, particularly housing. More rehab centers maybe? Tbh I don’t know the demos of FL, I’m just assuming anything outside of Miami and Orlando is aging out.
 

rick81721

Lothar
I really wonder what Florida will be like in 15 years when the boomers die off? Is its job sector diversified enough to make it to the next population bubble getting old? Will the housing market dip in between population bubbles? Are they doing anything to try to prepare for a die off? I’m thinking so many jobs are centered around old people that when they do die it will have significant impact on that economy, particularly housing. More rehab centers maybe? Tbh I don’t know the demos of FL, I’m just assuming anything outside of Miami and Orlando is aging out.

Likely people will keep moving down here after retirement. Who wants to retire in NY or NJ??

Currently at historic low unemployment - strong job growth in leisure/hospitality and health care/education

https://www.flgov.com/2022/11/18/fl...-resiliency-despite-impacts-of-hurricane-ian/
 
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