How the hell are we supposed to retire?

Cassinonorth

Well-Known Member
Your previous comment made it sound like buying any individual stock is gambling, and that buying AMC isn't gambling any more than any other individual stock. While all investment carries risk, I just don't agree with that. Buying something super risky that you know is super risky is gambling. Buying shares in a reputable company that makes money and has consistently grown over the years is investing, though there is obviously still some risk no matter what company it is.

My opinion is that day trading at the retail level is gambling. I know you do so you're going to stick with your opinion and I'll stick with mine here.

I have 0 problem with people choosing to do so...I do with some fun money as well. But I'm not going to stand on the shoulders of a bull market and say I'm a genius for making money. I absolutely cannot wait for the bear market to make these retail traders go away tbh.
 

JimN

Captain Wildcat
Team MTBNJ Halter's
My opinion is that day trading at the retail level is gambling. I know you do so you're going to stick with your opinion and I'll stick with mine here.

I don't day trade. I do gamble sometimes, and I have no problem admitting that. Buying AMC is gambling. I would not consider buying AAPL and holding it long term to be gambling. Of course there is risk, and I wouldn't suggest buying it right now since it's at an all time high.
 

Cassinonorth

Well-Known Member
I don't day trade. I do gamble sometimes, and I have no problem admitting that. Buying AMC is gambling. I would not consider buying AAPL and holding it long term to be gambling. Of course there is risk, and I wouldn't suggest buying it right now since it's at an all time high.

Sorry I thought you did, my mistake. I agree buying and holding an established company (or a whole pile of em, like VTSAX!) is much safer and less akin to gambling than day trading on tips you read on reddit or what someone assumes will happen when the economy recovers.

Obviously you can lose money investing in anything.
 

Bike N Gear

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I don't day trade. I do gamble sometimes, and I have no problem admitting that. Buying AMC is gambling. I would not consider buying AAPL and holding it long term to be gambling. Of course there is risk, and I wouldn't suggest buying it right now since it's at an all time high.
If you're holding for a long time AAPL is probably still fine to buy. I've bought AAPL and AMZN at or near their highs several times and still watched them climb for years.
 

JimN

Captain Wildcat
Team MTBNJ Halter's
If you're holding for a long time AAPL is probably still fine to buy.

That's true, but they've got earnings coming up. There is usually a run up to earnings, they announce a completely blowout quarter, and then the stock tanks. Then it hits all time highs again a month or two later.
 
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mfennell

Well-Known Member
If you're holding for a long time AAPL is probably still fine to buy. I've bought AAPL and AMZN at or near their highs several times and still watched them climb for years.
If you have regular investments in index funds, you're probably doing that already. My eTrade rep did an analysis of our accounts for us. Apple, Microsoft, Amazon - 3 out of the top 5 holdings even though I don't own any individual shares of any of them.
 

Bike N Gear

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If you have regular investments in index funds, you're probably doing that already. My eTrade rep did an analysis of our accounts for us. Apple, Microsoft, Amazon - 3 out of the top 5 holdings even though I don't own any individual shares of any of them.
I know. My retirement account is all funds. Individual stocks are in play account, but I still tend to hold till at least they become LT trades.
 

rick81721

Lothar
Dismissing AMC and GME buyers out of one side of your mouth and buying up Delta is flat out hypocritical. Yeah, they're slightly less risky but risky nonetheless. I know you mostly have index funds...your holier than thou attitude in that comment rubbed me the wrong way

More nonsense. Right now, AMC and DAL are almost exactly the same price. I yr target estimate for DAL is 56. AMC is 5... 🤣

PS I bought stocks from solid companies that were down due to the covid pandemic (airlines, cruise lines primarily).
 

Fire Lord Jim

Well-Known Member
Buying individual stocks is investing. It is what EFTs and mutual funds do. Buying individual stocks may introduce diversification risk, but it remains investing. And with enough stocks, you can reduce that diversification risk. Back when odd lots carried higher commissions, and when fractional shares could only be sold and not bought, funds were the way to go, but today, the only reason to go funds is to let someone else make the buy/sell decisions. You buy the fund, the manager buys the.... individual stock. Me doing it vs him doing it does not change it from investing to gambling.

Investing in an index fund will get you diversification, but think about what you are buying. Standard & Poors decides what companies get included in their S&P 500. Last week, Moderna got added. That means company number 500 got squeezed out to be number 501, and every S&P 500 index fund is dumping that stock for no good reason. Those same funds are buying Moderna, as though it will be a lead vaccine maker for next year's once a century pandemic. This is irrespective as to whether this is a good point to enter into the trades. They funds are just jumping off the same bridge because Standard & Poors did. For this you pay a fee.

I have a different performance time horizon than Standard & Poors. For example, I am willing to hold oil stocks, as I am confident that oil, like tobacco, will be profitable for a long time. "Today, oil and gas companies constitute just 2.3 percent of the S&P 500, down from more than 15 percent in 2008." Says the Google. Standard & Poors says that one-third of the historical gains of the S&P 500 has been dividend yield as opposed to appreciation. This shift out of oil has paralleled a decline in S&P 500 dividend yield. Had I chosen index funds instead of individual stocks, I would have chosen to lower my dividend yield, which, you know, can be tax free.

Do I buy funds? Absolutely! They are a great way to get specific investment exposure. GLD gets exposure to gold. GSY to ultra short term bond funds. KBA to China. INDA to India. XT to exponential technologies. But for the majority of my investing I pick a distressed entry point, buy and hold, and don't get swayed by the trendiness of a TSLA or Moderna. And if I didn't like doing this stuff—like Warren Buffett's wife—I would go all index funds. It's not the wrong thing to do, but don't assume the fund manager does the correct thing. All he does is jump because everyone else did.
 

Gnick

Active Member
2% hurts a lot more as you get closer to retirement.
hopefully if someone is close to retirement, they've been invested for 30+ years and realize 2% is literally nothing. Shit, it was down 2% in the middle of last week and was back up Monday. It cant perpetually go up. I'll start to get excited when it hits -20.
 

Bike N Gear

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hopefully if someone is close to retirement, they've been invested for 30+ years and realize 2% is literally nothing. Shit, it was down 2% in the middle of last week and was back up Monday. It cant perpetually go up. I'll start to get excited when it hits -20.
Lol. You obviously have never met my wife.
 

Mahnken

Well-Known Member
I love it. Prices are back to where they were 3 months ago. I hope it continues down for a few more weeks.
 
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