Hartshorne/Huber Conditions
- Thread starter jerzey111
- Start date
They definitely feel too firm and getting deflection.
It's the stans formula.
Rider weight/7 =x. X-1 for front psi. X+2 for rear psi.
Stan's tire pressure formula applied to light...
forums.mtbr.com
Lol, I didn't know they had a formula. That formula is a start, I'd work down from there. May need to subtract 3-5 psi from that formula.They definitely feel too firm and getting deflection.
It's the stans formula.
Rider weight/7 =x. X-1 for front psi. X+2 for rear psi.
Stan's tire pressure formula applied to light...
At least 3-5 that says i should run 23f 26r
I'd be bouncing off everything. I run 20 rear. Tops
The tires were definitely too firm. I dropped 5 psi front and rear, so just north of 20. On yesterdays ride I found more traction on climbs.
These tires have been an interesting experiment. Wider footprint makes a big difference (duh #1) for sure but the tread pattern may be too aggressive and a dedicated rear pattern may help with climbs (duh #2.) Not quite buyers remorse yet but I am going to look into something a tad wider and milder.
Karate Monkey
Well-Known Member
I finally rode that trail again a few days ago--if it was riders taming shit down, they didn't even make that the fastest line, let alone the easiest (being that the removed root STILL causes a hell of a roller effect coming down). That remains to be the root clutch on the LH side, descending.
don
Well-Known Member
I think I've said it before but the tragedy is the actual terrain is really good in that section. It could be such a really good section of trail.
gpTron
Well-Known Member
I was running ~18-20PSI in my DHF/R but it felt too "understeer-y" on faster downhill sections where as my Rekkons at that PSI didn't. From doing some crude research it just seemed I wasn't riding aggressive enough to get on those side knobs, hence the under steer. It was suggested to try around 25PSI. Tried that and it gripped better, but now I'm bouncing off roots like crazy. I might try 25 front and 20 rear next time I go out.They definitely feel too firm and getting deflection.
It's the stans formula.
Rider weight/7 =x. X-1 for front psi. X+2 for rear psi.
Stan's tire pressure formula applied to light...
The drops probably don't even require that much attention. It's a shame that after those 3 drops or so it runs into the deep sand section. No way to do anything about that except petitioning for Monmouth Parks system to do something about it. I'm sure that involves grant writing, environmental impact studies, etc.
knobbyhead
Next off the Island.
Hartshorne was great today. Branches are down. There was a big one down on the grand tour in the monmouth hills section.
No, the small tree across Grand Tour is still there.
As usual, the water tower climb changes after every heavy rain. The lines are constantly being cut or filled with the erosion process.
wonderturtle
Well-Known Member
Rode Huber today - was fine for what the park has become.
I’ve now resigned myself to the fact that the Huber of old (a fast and flowy park..like a hilly allaire) is no longer and will never be again. It’s clearly beyond the point of repair. It’s now a more technical park than it used to be with large stretches of exposed roots, long stretches of very deep sand, and loose rocks. Without exception these occur in combination on hills making what used to be quick little climbs much more of a challenge.
I am sure many other mtbers prefer a more “technical” Huber but I preferred the fast and flowy counterpoint to hartshorne that Huber used to be.
Oh well. what once was will never be again
I’ve now resigned myself to the fact that the Huber of old (a fast and flowy park..like a hilly allaire) is no longer and will never be again. It’s clearly beyond the point of repair. It’s now a more technical park than it used to be with large stretches of exposed roots, long stretches of very deep sand, and loose rocks. Without exception these occur in combination on hills making what used to be quick little climbs much more of a challenge.
I am sure many other mtbers prefer a more “technical” Huber but I preferred the fast and flowy counterpoint to hartshorne that Huber used to be.
Oh well. what once was will never be again
Karate Monkey
Well-Known Member
@wonderturtle it just shows the gap between what the parks were, are, and are going to become. Without remediation, they will certainly be closed in the future...
Ain't none of it technical.
We go through this every year after summer rains erode the park. Like any other park without tm it will still exist, as crappy as it is and people will ride mountain bikes there because there's no other trails in that area.
Treat yourself and go ride another park on the wknd, there is good shit out there if you are willing to drive and have the time or go to the same crappy park and whine about the crappy conditions.
Or ride with buddies and blame Mitch.
We go through this every year after summer rains erode the park. Like any other park without tm it will still exist, as crappy as it is and people will ride mountain bikes there because there's no other trails in that area.
Treat yourself and go ride another park on the wknd, there is good shit out there if you are willing to drive and have the time or go to the same crappy park and whine about the crappy conditions.
Or ride with buddies and blame Mitch.
wonderturtle
Well-Known Member
fwiw I haven’t complained in, I don’t know, maybe a year? Find a post within the last year of me bitching. You won’t find it. Perhaps you remember my previous bitching cause I was pretty vocal about it. But it hasn’t been constant and certainly hasn t been recent. I got sufficiently bitch-slapped into keeping my mouth shut the last time I dared to comment on the matter.
“Technical” is obviously a relative term and that’s why I used quotes. Its more “technical” than it used to be. Hills you used to be able to zoom up cause you could maintain momentum you can’t cause there’s a beach at the base of each hill and then erosion has made the hill loose with rocks and exposed roots. That’s not necessarily “bad” (as I indicated many may prefer) but it’s not how Huber used to be. Just a fact.
My schedule doesn’t allow me to go to many other parks. I can do Huber and hartshorne from my house so that’s my most frequent ride.
with that said I have been avoiding Huber whenever my schedule allows and do allaire instead. I’ve been doing allaire a LOT more frequently than any year before for these reasons
lastly I don’t even consider my post a complaint. It’s a statement of facts. Huber is not what it once was. And it’s beyond repair. It’s a different park now. I wasn’t complaining. I am resigned to that fact. I’ve accepted it. If my post wasnt clear on that point -consider this my clarification.
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wonderturtle
Well-Known Member
Karate Monkey
Well-Known Member
I'll put this as nicely and un-inflammatorily as possible. Hartshorne is built on the site of an old military installation (which is probably also the only reason it's a park instead of 5 really expensive houses); Huber, including the house, were a gift of the Huber family, who still live in the area. I remember very little from my childhood, except that for the trails that exist now, where you see chutes, or deep cuts, used to be at the level of the top of the cut. The erosion in the parks is not absurd for the area, but a critical lack of maintenance, cleaning, and repair/rerouting of trails are contributing factors. Particularly bad trails are built on fall lines. Compared to parks like Sterling/Wayway/Ringwood up north, and Allaire farther down, Hartshorne and Huber receive only basic maintenance (clearing downed trees, intermittent trimming). Some of this is due to a lack of people, some of it due to a lack of extra volunteers (MoCo only allows supervised volunteers, and only as scheduled, once a week, spread out over ~10 other trail systems), some of it due to the leadership of the county park system, and some due to employees. I would be remiss if I didn't point out here that there is a contingent of people on bikes that don't believe closed trails apply to them (see: Laurel Ridge switchback with the horribly eroded hillside, and other straight up closed off trails).
The trails themselves have fared fairly well, except for possibly the worst offending trail in the park: the climbs--in either direction--out of Buttermilk Valley, and in the last year, the switchback descent in Rocky Point. You can make of the attempts to fix Buttermilk Valley whatever you will.
If you want to get involved, contact the county volunteer system. If you want to get even more involved, contact Jorba.
SmooveP
Well-Known Member
Only 224 acres was a military installation. Most of the remaining 500+ acres was donated by the Hartshorne family. Many of the trails in the original (non-Rocky Point) section are around 50 years old, so you could expect that they have gotten a little beat up over the years. In the past, the park has shut down some badly eroded trails and built some new ones. Not sure why they haven't continued to do that, but if they did, I'm pretty sure there would be a faction of mountain bikers who'd be unhappy with the results.
Hartshorne seems to draw more than its share of complaints about the trails. What's an example of a park in NJ that has it all figured out?