H2H Categories

The question in my mind is: does any of this really matter? We hope H2H will grow in the future. Also, we want to promote mountain biking up in our little corner of the world and we will do so without USAC. Go out and race the races that you will enjoy. Hopefully, we will see you at either the Iron Furnance 50K or The BearScat.

The reasons that people and clubs stop promoting races is that either they run out of time or get tired of dealing with the hassles. Our club members have opinions about how our races should be run. Right or wrong, they are our opinions. We are happy to listen to other POVs but ultimately we want to decide how we execute on insurance, course design, payout, sanctioning, race fees, value for money, etc. In the end we decided to go our own way due to the fact that we were getting worn out by the sermons, ultimatums and the constant defence of our independence associated with promoting an H2H race. Maybe we did run away from H2H, but we were running towards something else (i.e. The Iron Furnace 50K, a MASS Endurance Event). We are trying to be race promoters who do not get worn out.

To be clear, we like race series. We really like working with MASS. Low hassle, high level of engagement, similar values. If we can pull it off, we would love to bring NUE to NJ. Maybe in the future? Who knows, maybe the future will bring Black Bear and H2H back together? Whatever happens in the future will be all about running toward races and events we are really excited about, not just going through the motions. Race promotion is a volunteer gig; once the joy is gone it is tough to stay motivated.

Regarding NICA, awesome to see so many kids getting involved in Mountain Biking! My hope is that the focus is on having fun, not building pro athletes. A very small number of kids turn pro across all sports. Many parents put too much pressure on kids in sports. Let future generations go out and ride bikes in the woods and be kids. If they race in the future great but the goal should be for kids to ride bikes as a life long pursuit into adulthood and pass the sport along to future generations.

Thankfully, I am done with this debate as we secured our independence. Maybe we succeed, maybe we fail. But we get to do things on our terms based on feedback from hundreds of racers through surveys, 1:1 conversations and public forums like this. We hope to have some big fun at The Iron Furnance 50K and The BearScat in 2018! Come on out and join us! Much fun to be had! No license required
 
i keep hearing money-money-money.....

i have no idea what is required of the race organizer from USAC - if you could throw out a few bullets, and maybe some time/$$ estimates, i'd
like to be more informed about it...

a sanctioning body should be giving you tools to make organizing/promoting easier, not more onerous. bad job if usac isn't doing this.

i do understand that sponsors/promoters/organizers will have differences of opinion on series issues - holy hell, i tried to organize a lunchtime project
chalk-talk at work, and couldn't get agreement on anything.

---
From a causal rider/participant (me) POV in concerns to the $$

$10/day license is steep. with USATF events, the cost is presented including a day license, and discounted for "members"
usually $3ish. USAT is $15/day, and it is up to the race organizer to collect it. again, presented as a discount, rather than add-on.
i'm probably going to participate in 4 or 5 usac events. so dealing with a break-even analysis doesn't really break the GAF
level for me. might not be true for others. at least they stopped doing it ala carte with road/crit/mtb/cx add-ins.

perhaps the high cost is associated with insurance? although who are they insuring? as mentioned.

USAC - 1 year $75
USATF - 4 years $100
USAT - 3 years $150 (lifetime $1000)
PBA full membership $300/yr, lower level $114/yr (yeah, bowling.) - no multi year option. you need to be a full member to wear a sponsor's shirt (?)

usa cycling benefits - like the $$ ones. some are save if you spend, but others are useful, like the united airlines discount.

the license, nor the where is the money going issue is stopping me, the casual rider, from doing a couple races. even w/o a chance of winning.
USAT and USATF have 5 year AG x gender x weight break downs, the events are big, and for the most part are not spectator friendly at the adult level.
i don't know where i could casually go and throw a javelin - but that would be cool.
triathlon is looking to put in closed-course, multi-lap venues that would be highly spectator friendly, almost like nascar

----a little blah-blah-blah down here. i'm discounting my $.02 by at least 50% since i have 0 cred on the topic.

there are no people getting into mountain biking as adults because of images from redbull rampage. they don't understand that riding around
6MR or Allaire is not that much tougher than a rail trail with a few hills. yet they will ride a flat handle bike on a paved trail like loantaka.
Or they are hiking the sourlands, and see people riding a bike through there, and think
they'd die, because of not seeing the progression of experience to ride there. Thus no adult feeder into racing.


why are racers are getting out of mountain bike racing? i dunno, maybe because of the commitment needed to be at the pointy end of the race, the risk of injury when there are other priorities? it doesn't seem like the equipment arms-race that is time trials. How about 1 and done. there isn't any progression in difficulty at the race level, other than speed in h2h. So it gets checked off the list, and if it wasn't a howling good time, they aren't coming back.

this is compared to running a couple 5ks, then upping it to 10k, then 1/2&full marathons. or the basic 4 levels of triathlon. it is much more personal accomplishment/progression, rather than a game of how badly did i fail (no matter how you millenialize it) which is also why youth baseball is failing in the usa. really fun seeing 12yo kids cry because they grounded out.
 
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Regarding NICA, awesome to see so many kids getting involved in Mountain Biking! My hope is that the focus is on having fun, not building pro athletes. A very small number of kids turn pro across all sports.

Right on. I think your hope is safe with NICA:
- 66% of our registered students participated in a race last year, and I am very "ok" with that! National numbers are very similar.
- Over 90% of those who raced, never had before.
- ~1/3rd of registered students never rode a mountain bike.
- A major effort is underway in the mid-Atlantic leagues, and nation-wide, to incorporate adventure programming into NICA

My unofficial poll also showed me that a majority of our students were blissfully unaware or unconcerned with where they finished. They were just stoked to be outside with other kids on bikes. Similar to my first race on Randall's Island in 1990-something. Similar to my 9 year old, who rarely knows the score of his soccer/baseball/basketball game if I ask hours later. It's about getting outside, being with friends, and having fun. For now, he can't wait to join NICA. If he doesn't when the time comes, that's ok with me too.

A few random thoughts, not directed at anyone in particular:
- Our community is strongest when united.
- Racing bikes is about fun. If you find yourself not having fun, step back and look in the mirror. The answer to why the fun is gone lies somewhere in there.
- If you see an issue that needs fixing, help fix it.
- Agreeing to disagree is ok, and sometimes the best course of action.
- A vast majority of people who support mountain biking in NJ are volunteers, in a state that ranks in the 40's among states in volunteerism percentages. Sponsors, race promoters, advocates, coaches, etc. are doing what they feel is best to advance the sport. If you don't have something nice to say about one of them, keep it to yourself or find a way to help fix it.
 
I am glad that Black Bear does what they believe in. They run awesome races and have dared to bring back fall racing. ....Something that I look forward to and have wanted for some time. It seems that all mountain bike racing has moved to the spring months (including NICA), which in my opinion, are not always the best months for trail conditions. As a trail builder and a racer, I prefer summer and fall for racing. Not everyone races cross, so it is good to spread the mountain bike racing through the months with better weather.
 
The series organizers decided to stop doing it which, as a promoter I get. You get tired of it. You get tired of this. Exact. Conversation happening year after year.

I mean to me, IDGAF if we are USAC or not. What is $75? We need to stop pretending the license cost is an issue. Most of the people here have bikes that cost more than their cars, and trainers that cost more than their fridges. Like someone said on that FB thread, the license is the cost of a tire. We are talking a set of people who will drop $400 for a weekend to go race 200 miles away. Cost, in the NY/NJ area, is not a valid argument based on pretty much every shred of available evidence.

Does USAC offer anything? Who knows. Dave, as @Kirt mentioned, pretty much offered to save the series a few years ago and he asked us to try it out. So we'll try it out. If it doesn't work for us, then we'll un-try it. Whatever.

I offered to personally vouch for HB to get them an H2H race at Nassau 2 years ago. So y'all didn't even need to have a race to prove you can do it. That offer was not picked up, even after I reached out to the Nassau park rep, several people at Nassau, the owner of HB, and several other HB members. You guys have the team, you have a venue, you have the potential to make it happen. I even had someone from our team agree to design the course. But nothing came of that.

If you want to help make the scene better, get involved.
Huh? I remember the initial conversation. Town of HB would love this. We have limitations on the Springside portion because of rules in place by Lebanon Township. I recall the convo just failed to continue.
 
Looking forward to the 2018 H2H Race Season and we are proud to support this series as well as a number of other cycling initiatives in the NJ area.

It's a refreshing feeling to know that most people that ride bikes don't have to try to have fun. Once we throw a leg over a top-tube...regardless of the bike, the venue, the weather, the duration of the ride, or the crew...we are all part of a wonderful cycling community.

Enjoy the ride, and remember, everything doesn't have to be a struggle. Have fun and enjoy our short time together, the ride tends to be a lot shorter than we expect.
 
i have no idea what is required of the race organizer from USAC - if you could throw out a few bullets, and maybe some time/$$ estimates, i'd
like to be more informed about it...

So far...

USAC license for me: $75
Club registration: $200
Officials license: $50

I don't know if I need a Race Director license yet. I'll keep you posted on that one when the USAC contact gets back to me.
 
@fidodie

Added

Ok next steps...

+ CEU credit requirement
+ Pass a background check

Summary

USAC license for me: $75
Club registration: $200
Officials license: $50
CEU credit requirement
Pass a background check
 
Added

+ background check cost of $20
+ need to give them my SSN

Summary

USAC license for me: $75
Club registration: $200
Officials license: $50
CEU credit requirement
Pass a background check
Pay for background check: $20
Need to give my SSN
 
Added

+ Sexual Misconduct Training
+ Mandatory Sexual Reporting Training
+ Emotional and Physical Misconduct Training

Summary

USAC license for me: $75
Club registration: $200
Officials license: $50
CEU credit requirement
Pass a background check
Pay for background check: $20
Need to give my SSN
Sexual Misconduct Training
Mandatory Sexual Reporting Training
Emotional and Physical Misconduct Training
 
Added

+ Sexual Misconduct Training
+ Mandatory Sexual Reporting Training
+ Emotional and Physical Misconduct Training

Summary

USAC license for me: $75
Club registration: $200
Officials license: $50
CEU credit requirement
Pass a background check
Pay for background check: $20
Need to give my SSN
Sexual Misconduct Training
Mandatory Sexual Reporting Training
Emotional and Physical Misconduct Training
Defensive driver training
eBay feedback score
# of FB Friends
 
Ok, I've read most of the posts on this thread, and am not quite getting what the debate is. Is the consensus that USAC is bringing the demise of H2H? I've raced for years in H2H, and never bought a season USAC license. But, when a one-day license was needed, I had no problem paying the extra $10 because I wanted to ride. To me, the H2H races weren't about racing, because I wasn't competitive, competing for a podium, I was racing to do as best I could and having fun. It was about meeting great people that are on this forum, and in the words of the best-known, well-loved member, "Just ride bikes". So, for me, spending an extra 10 bucks wasn't a big deal.
 
Thanks @Norm

I suspect all the costs/training are per season?

Then there is a cost to register the race as usac, is it fixed base, plus variable with the amount of people?
Any other factors? Trying to get an idea of the usac "premium" with this question. ie. is their insurance more expensive
than what is available via free market.

As a track official and volunteer at the high school, I've been through all of those
except my reporting requirement is to tell the head guy. That be you so.....
i'm going to get checked for TB and something else today - it is a reaction test, so need to go back in a few days.
the good news is that these checks/training often count across activities.

have you done the Rutgers Safety Course or the Concussion Training yet?
Rutgers is in person, most of a day, and Concussion Training is on-line. Both are worth the time.

Are the race director meetings via conf call?
What roles are assigned to others to put on a single race the size of mooch madness?

^^bunch of questions, that will take much time to answer. maybe a trail ride Q&A would be better.
 
Added

+ Sexual Misconduct Training
+ Mandatory Sexual Reporting Training
+ Emotional and Physical Misconduct Training

Summary

USAC license for me: $75
Club registration: $200
Officials license: $50
CEU credit requirement
Pass a background check
Pay for background check: $20
Need to give my SSN
Sexual Misconduct Training
Mandatory Sexual Reporting Training
Emotional and Physical Misconduct Training

Im hoping that you will also be able to perform CPR on me
 
Added

+ Race Director fee of $150 was waiver by USAC
+ Additional background check information has been requested so I need to give them more information, but they will not tell me what yet

Summary

  1. USAC license for me: $75 ($75)
  2. Club registration: $200 ($275)
  3. Officials license: $50 ($325)
  4. CEU credit requirement
  5. Pass a background check
  6. Pay for background check: $20 ($345)
  7. Need to give my SSN
  8. Sexual Misconduct Training
  9. Mandatory Sexual Reporting Training
  10. Emotional and Physical Misconduct Training
  11. Race Director fee of $150 was waiver by USAC
  12. Additional background check information has been requested so I need to give them more information, but they will not tell me what yet
 
i'm emotionally exhausted just keeping up with this list

I admit that the intention of this was to show that look, it's really not that hard. At this point I imagine this list will be at least 25 items long.

#fullDisclosureTuesday
 
[LIST=1 said:
[*]Additional background check information has been requested so I need to give them more information, but they will not tell me what yet
[/LIST]

They saw you are friends with the Pearl's !!! Your screwed !!!!
 
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