Cars, it's electric! Do Do Do

jShort said:
Whatever service the dealer is recommending. Glenn’s comment made it seem as though they didn’t have the car in for service when it should have been.

I’d never spend 80k on a car or any EV, so I have no idea what the recommended service requirements are on an AUDI Voltron.
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I don't understand the crazy money people are paying for EV's. At least for an ICE sports car costing $80-100k, there will be some resale value, but what do you expect to get for your $100k EV in 5-10yrs? Its like buying a 5yr old iPhone or computer, why would you?
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
I don't understand the crazy money people are paying for EV's. At least for an ICE sports car costing $80-100k, there will be some resale value, but what do you expect to get for your $100k EV in 5-10yrs? Its like buying a 5yr old iPhone or computer, why would you?
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i guess EVs haven't really been around long enough to know what typical10 year resale would be like. But whether the car has 5K miles on it or 150K miles, after 10 years the battery is near the end of it's life.
 
Santapez said:
What service though? It's an electric car.

Like I get bring it in for an oil change and having the other stuff done, but no oil changes on this thing. At 50k it's maybe still OK on tires.

I drive a $16.5k Honda with now 95,000 miles on it and never had it in anywhere for service and do my own oil changes. Zero problems so far. I do need to do the transmission fluid and coolant at 100k.

I guess it's just a thing when you have an Audi/Porsche to go once a year while they look at your wipe blade condition and see if you have coolant leaking onto your electric motor while you drink a cappuccino in the waiting room?
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Pollen filter.
Rear motor coolant catch can .
Rear motors fill with coolant too.
Interior fragrance cartridge.
Not to mention probably 5 recall / updates the car should have got.
 
Santapez said:
What service though? It's an electric car.

Like I get bring it in for an oil change and having the other stuff done, but no oil changes on this thing. At 50k it's maybe still OK on tires.

I drive a $16.5k Honda with now 95,000 miles on it and never had it in anywhere for service and do my own oil changes. Zero problems so far. I do need to do the transmission fluid and coolant at 100k.

I guess it's just a thing when you have an Audi/Porsche to go once a year while they look at your wipe blade condition and see if you have coolant leaking onto your electric motor while you drink a cappuccino in the waiting room?
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I take the GT350 into the dealer for service intervals. Have ext warranty as well to 8 yrs or 80K miles (most likely 8 yrs if I keep it that long).
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
I don't understand the crazy money people are paying for EV's. At least for an ICE sports car costing $80-100k, there will be some resale value, but what do you expect to get for your $100k EV in 5-10yrs? Its like buying a 5yr old iPhone or computer, why would you?
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Great points. Totally agree. Although I doubt I’d spend that on an ICE either but that’s just me.
Patrick said:
extended warranty cheaper than service!
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Again, person is a moron for not dumping the car before the extended warranty period expired. :)
 
rick81721 said:
Based on what? Driving 50,000 miles a year? The average is 13,500. Tesla says more like 300 - 500K miles, which for most drivers is 20-40 years

https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-long-does-a-tesla-battery-last/
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And you believe what Tesla (Musk) says?

www.caranddriver.com

Tested: Why Teslas Show Unrealistic Range Estimates Compared with Other EVs

In C/D testing, we found that Tesla's range display indicator doesn't adjust to account for driving conditions in the same way that other EVs' distance-to-empty estimates do.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
And you believe what Tesla (Musk) says?

www.caranddriver.com

Tested: Why Teslas Show Unrealistic Range Estimates Compared with Other EVs

In C/D testing, we found that Tesla's range display indicator doesn't adjust to account for driving conditions in the same way that other EVs' distance-to-empty estimates do.
www.caranddriver.com www.caranddriver.com
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I don't trust Elon Musk for anything but there's a pretty big difference between the car software doing a lousy/optimistic job of calculating remaining range on a charge and the overall life span of a battery.

I haven't found a great analysis of this, but 10 years seems like a really pessimistic estimate for most cars and drivers. Most are more like 15-20 years, but number of discharge cycles in that timeframe and charging rates will impact it more than just age.
 
rick81721 said:
I take the GT350 into the dealer for service intervals. Have ext warranty as well to 8 yrs or 80K miles (most likely 8 yrs if I keep it that long).
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Yeah but you have a drivetrain where it actually makes sense to have service. Engine oil needs to be routinely changed and coolant/transmission fluid at less common intervals. Although honestly not changing coolant/transmission isn't a big deal in most cars.

Glenn Rides After 4 PM CST said:
Pollen filter.
Rear motor coolant catch can .
Rear motors fill with coolant too.
Interior fragrance cartridge.
Not to mention probably 5 recall / updates the car should have got.
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I don't feel bad for those people. Glad they're providing you a paycheck.
 
rick81721 said:
Based on what? Driving 50,000 miles a year? The average is 13,500. Tesla says more like 300 - 500K miles, which for most drivers is 20-40 years

https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-long-does-a-tesla-battery-last/
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Batteries degrade over time, even if not being used.
Tesla may say 300-500k miles but they sure don't warranty them for that long.
The EV battery would still probably have a charge after 15 years but only have a fraction of the original range and power, compared to
a properly maintained ICE vehicle would have the same range and power over it's lifespan.

The point is: A 20 year old ICE car with low miles is still basically a new car. A 20 year old EV with low miles is on deaths door.
 
JPark said:
Batteries degrade over time, even if not being used.
Tesla may say 300-500k miles but they sure don't warranty them for that long.
The EV battery would still probably have a charge after 15 years but only have a fraction of the original range and power, compared to
a properly maintained ICE vehicle would have the same range and power over it's lifespan.

The point is: A 20 year old ICE car with low miles is still basically a new car. A 20 year old EV with low miles is on deaths door.
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I mean, not for nothing, but you started with saying that after 10 years the battery is useless, then 15, then 20. Of course there's degradation, but I haven't seen anything that suggests "death's door" or "a fraction", even after 20 years, unless that fraction is closer 1 than 0.

I guess I don't understand what point you're making. If it's a financial one, there have been analyses done that look at cost of ownership, including depreciation, over varying periods of ownership. In general, those favor EV's, even when they're more expensive to start due to reduced maintenance and fuel costs. If it's a general environmental waste thing, again, those analyses have been done and are continuing to be updated. EV's, generally speaking, are a bit more environmentally friendly, although it's probably not as much of a margin as some would believe and varies depending on a large number of factors.
 
JPark said:
Batteries degrade over time, even if not being used.
Tesla may say 300-500k miles but they sure don't warranty them for that long.
The EV battery would still probably have a charge after 15 years but only have a fraction of the original range and power, compared to
a properly maintained ICE vehicle would have the same range and power over it's lifespan.

The point is: A 20 year old ICE car with low miles is still basically a new car. A 20 year old EV with low miles is on deaths door.
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Again, you seem to be just making things up here.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shoppi...vehicle batteries last,not pair well with EVs.
 
ebarker9 said:
I mean, not for nothing, but you started with saying that after 10 years the battery is useless, then 15, then 20. Of course there's degradation, but I haven't seen anything that suggests "death's door" or "a fraction", even after 20 years, unless that fraction is closer 1 than 0.

I guess I don't understand what point you're making. If it's a financial one, there have been analyses done that look at cost of ownership, including depreciation, over varying periods of ownership. In general, those favor EV's, even when they're more expensive to start due to reduced maintenance and fuel costs. If it's a general environmental waste thing, again, those analyses have been done and are continuing to be updated. EV's, generally speaking, are a bit more environmentally friendly, although it's probably not as much of a margin as some would believe and varies depending on a large number of factors.
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So what are the fundamental assumptions of this analysis? As a piece of technology, hypothetically, range will get better, electric motors will get more powerful and efficient, processors will advance, all of the systems that power the vehicle will become obsolete relatively quickly. The iPhone, computer analogy holds, why would I buy an old one? And this doesn’t even take into account the market factors that will drive up the price of higher-end pre owned ICE vehicles.
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
So what are the fundamental assumptions of this analysis? As a piece of technology, hypothetically, range will get better, electric motors will get more powerful and efficient, processors will advance, all of the systems that power the vehicle will become obsolete relatively quickly. The iPhone, computer analogy holds, why would I buy an old one? And this doesn’t even take into account the market factors that will drive up the price of higher-end pre owned ICE vehicles.
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In think the people buying at that price point are not concerned with obsolescence, and won't hold it until the battery is done.
 
Captain Brainstorm said:
So what are the fundamental assumptions of this analysis? As a piece of technology, hypothetically, range will get better, electric motors will get more powerful and efficient, processors will advance, all of the systems that power the vehicle will become obsolete relatively quickly. The iPhone, computer analogy holds, why would I buy an old one? And this doesn’t even take into account the market factors that will drive up the price of higher-end pre owned ICE vehicles.
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EVs will get better and cheaper, ICE vehicles got and are getting better. no one wants a clapped out 10+ year old ICE car either… low mileage or not 10+ year old cars will be less reliable regardless of miles… but buying an old EV isn’t like an old iPhone. It’s a bad analogy because the network that a phone uses continuously improves such that an older device cannot navigate it, apps are bigger, images are bigger, 5g etc…The fundamental aspect of the road have not changed in way that make vehicles obsolete. The range and charge of a current EV will meet the needs of most people, so despite better systems available they can commute to work without a problem. The only caveat to this will be when autonomous driving takes hold and updates will be required to communicate with other cars and road systems.
 
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