Cars, it's electric! Do Do Do

His son was also in my Rutgers CE class. He came in and did a presentation. It is impressive to say the least! Never visited but would like to.

A couple years ago, this company from Hillsborough came to work for a presentation! I was utterly surprised when I saw their address.
https://nsuwater.com/
to cut to the chase they turn shit into reusable water using equipment that is installed in the building
 
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Mahnken said:
Says it in the description. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that that house belongs to this guy's daughter:
www.nytimes.com

The Gospel of Hydrogen Power (Published 2020)

Mike Strizki powers his house and cars with hydrogen he home-brews. He is using his retirement to evangelize for the planet-saving advantages of hydrogen batteries.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
www.communitynews.org

No electric? No problem for Hopewell’s Michael Strizki

Michael Strizki converted his home to run on hydrogen and solar energy, making it the first solar hydrogen residence in North America.
www.communitynews.org www.communitynews.org
Click to expand...

Haha he uses solar electricity to make hydrogen. So he gets electricity from the sun, uses sone of that electricity to seperare hydrogen from water, uses more solar electricity to separate the hydrogen from oxygen, more electricity to pressurize/store the hydrogen, which he then pumps into his car, where a fuel cell converts the hydrogen back to electricity to power the car! Elon's mind bogglingly stupid!
 
rick81721 said:
Haha he uses solar electricity to make hydrogen. So he gets electricity from the sun, uses sone of that electricity to seperare hydrogen from water, uses more solar electricity to separate the hydrogen from oxygen, more electricity to pressurize/store the hydrogen, which he then pumps into his car, where a fuel cell converts the hydrogen back to electricity to power the car! Elon's mind bogglingly stupid!
Click to expand...

hydrogen generation uses more electricity than just pumping it into batteries, but it doesnt have any of the heavy metals and toxic processes to generate the fuel cells . . . . i mean i know that no solution is perfect, but you really need to open your mind up somewhat.
 
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rick81721 said:
Haha he uses solar electricity to make hydrogen. So he gets electricity from the sun, uses sone of that electricity to seperare hydrogen from water, uses more solar electricity to separate the hydrogen from oxygen, more electricity to pressurize/store the hydrogen, which he then pumps into his car, where a fuel cell converts the hydrogen back to electricity to power the car! Elon's mind bogglingly stupid!
Click to expand...

you dismiss the process of mining lithium and other elements, and the energy and chemistry to make the batteries,
and the cost of disposal.
Plenty of energy waste in most systems - perhaps we should use steam power, rather than refine crude into useable fuel?
 
shrpshtr325 said:
hydrogen generation uses more electricity than just pumping it into batteries, but it doesnt have any of the heavy metals and toxic processes to generate the fuel cells . . . . i mean i know that no solution is perfect, but you really need to open your mind up somewhat.
Click to expand...

I'm not anti-hydrogen - it's the most abundant element in the universe. Makes sense for rockets and eventually fusion reactors. I just don't see a future for it to power cars. Trucks, trains, busses, planes are a different story.
 
rick81721 said:
I'm not anti-hydrogen - it's the most abundant element in the universe. Makes sense for rockets and eventually fusion reactors. I just don't see a future for it to power cars. Trucks, trains, busses, planes are a different story.
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i mean if it takes over trucking, chances are it will also take over in cars, it makes more sense to spread the development cost across the larger number of vehicles, and improvements will be more adaptable, rather than spending on multiple paths (multiple times actually)
 
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Patrick said:
you dismiss the process of mining lithium and other elements, and the energy and chemistry to make the batteries,
and the cost of disposal.
Plenty of energy waste in most systems - perhaps we should use steam power, rather than refine crude into useable fuel?
Click to expand...

You dismiss the fact that FCEV also have storage batteries. And the fuel cells require platinum and nickel. The issue here is efficiency of BEVs vs FCEVs - especially when you are generating your own electricity from the sun.

Here's a similar concept - try it and see how it works for you: take $1000 in cash to a currency exchange. Get Euros. Hand the guy all the Euros and ask for pounds Sterling. Then hand the guy the pounds and exchange for Swiss francs. Then convert the Swiss francs back to US dollars. How many do you end up with?
 
shrpshtr325 said:
i mean if it takes over trucking, chances are it will also take over in cars, it makes more sense to spread the development cost across the larger number of vehicles, and improvements will be more adaptable, rather than spending on multiple paths (multiple times actually)
Click to expand...

Perhaps. I included trucking because they could operated out of hubs like mass transit. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
rick81721 said:
You dismiss the fact that FCEV also have storage batteries. And the fuel cells require platinum and nickel. The issue here is efficiency of BEVs vs FCEVs - especially when you are generating your own electricity from the sun.

Here's a similar concept - try it and see how it works for you: take $1000 in cash to a currency exchange. Get Euros. Hand the guy all the Euros and ask for pounds Sterling. Then hand the guy the pounds and exchange for Swiss francs. Then convert the Swiss francs back to US dollars. How many do you end up with?
Click to expand...

plenty of platinum to go around, and it isn't degraded in the process.

i am in favor of a hybrid solution. maybe even compressed air! Gotta fill those cold air thrusters with braking energy!
I'm not in favor of distributed H generation. the loss of CO and CO2 could not be controlled.

as mentioned, trucks roll from a refinery now - no difference except how it is handled at the endpoints.

I know - car wash / H2 replenish combo! they use the conveyor to unload the current tank, then load the new from underneath
all while getting a shammy shine! I'm on fire now (well i hope not)
 
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Patrick said:
plenty of platinum to go around, and it isn't degraded in the process.

i am in favor of a hybrid solution. maybe even compressed air! Gotta fill those cold air thrusters with braking energy!
I'm not in favor of distributed H generation. the loss of CO and CO2 could not be controlled.

as mentioned, trucks roll from a refinery now - no difference except how it is handled at the endpoints.

I know - car wash / H2 replenish combo! they use the conveyor to unload the current tank, then load the new from underneath
all while getting a shammy shine! I'm on fire now (well i hope not)
Click to expand...

we already have systems available for dispensing pressurized gas (propane anyone?) should be easy enough to convert stations to something similar and then environmental hazard of leaks goes away . . .
 
shrpshtr325 said:
i mean if it takes over trucking, chances are it will also take over in cars, it makes more sense to spread the development cost across the larger number of vehicles, and improvements will be more adaptable, rather than spending on multiple paths (multiple times actually)
Click to expand...
May depend highly on the use cases.

As mentioned before, long-haul trucking has issues with needing to swapout drivers. For those types of trucks that are continually stopping at either large truck stops or large warehouses (Amazon sized), those facilities could support Hydrogen refills. Those trucks are also also more highway driven as opposed to city so battery regeneration would be nearly nill. In this case you'll find more stations near ports or major stops but not in between.

Short-Haul is a different matter and would benefit from batteries. Short distances, stop and go, more time spent waiting. Also on the container side batteries can go on the chassis which can be charged when the chassis is dropped off. Most car use is similar to this.

But with Hydrogen, it's chicken & the egg. Without the infrastructure who is going for Hydrogen powered trucks? Electrical it's not hard to add the infrastructure especially for short haul where you start/end your day in the same place.
 
long haul/otr is where i think this will start out, i have a hunch that if it works well it will spread from there, but i dont have a crystal ball, otherwise id already be rich and retired. . . . we will have to wait and see together what happens.

although it still stands that adding the capability at truck stops/gas station for h2 dispensing would not be a huge change (yes an investment for different equipment, but if the pumps are due for replacement anyways how much of a difference would that really be? i dont know the answer)
 
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Patrick said:
plenty of platinum to go around, and it isn't degraded in the process.

i am in favor of a hybrid solution. maybe even compressed air! Gotta fill those cold air thrusters with braking energy!
I'm not in favor of distributed H generation. the loss of CO and CO2 could not be controlled.

as mentioned, trucks roll from a refinery now - no difference except how it is handled at the endpoints.

I know - car wash / H2 replenish combo! they use the conveyor to unload the current tank, then load the new from underneath
all while getting a shammy shine! I'm on fire now (well i hope not)
Click to expand...

platinum still has to be mined - lithium does not:

https://electrek.co/2021/07/02/gm-to-source-lithium-for-next-generation-ev-batteries-in-us/

and technology will continue to march on - lithium is not the final solution for rechargeable batteries
 
rick81721 said:
and technology will continue to march on
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yes - fuel cells will become more efficient 😉

math time!!!

tesla batteries are currently delivered in 1,000kwh packs and weighs in at a little over 1,000lbs.

to produce 1,000kwh of electricity from a 60% efficient fuel cell
requires 1666 kWh of chemical energy to generate 1,000 kWh of electrical energy.

Now a kWh equals 3.6 megajoules.
A kilogram of hydrogen contains 141.8 megajoules.
A kg ~ 40kwh * 50 to get to 1,000kwh
110 lbs.

This would seem like a very large volume tho.
 
Patrick said:
yes - fuel cells will become more efficient 😉

math time!!!

tesla batteries are currently delivered in 1,000kwh packs and weighs in at a little over 1,000lbs.

to produce 1,000kwh of electricity from a 60% efficient fuel cell
requires 1666 kWh of chemical energy to generate 1,000 kWh of electrical energy.

Now a kWh equals 3.6 megajoules.
A kilogram of hydrogen contains 141.8 megajoules.
A kg ~ 40kwh * 50 to get to 1,000kwh
110 lbs.

This would seem like a very large volume tho.
Click to expand...

Yep that's only 330 gallons!
 
Patrick said:
yes - fuel cells will become more efficient 😉

math time!!!

tesla batteries are currently delivered in 1,000kwh packs and weighs in at a little over 1,000lbs.

to produce 1,000kwh of electricity from a 60% efficient fuel cell
requires 1666 kWh of chemical energy to generate 1,000 kWh of electrical energy.

Now a kWh equals 3.6 megajoules.
A kilogram of hydrogen contains 141.8 megajoules.
A kg ~ 40kwh * 50 to get to 1,000kwh
110 lbs.

This would seem like a very large volume tho
Click to expand...

PS something is wrong with your calculations - think your tesla battery capacity is off by a factor of 10. Current FCEVs with 5kg H2 tanks have about the same range as a tesla.
 
Patrick said:
Still need a battery buffering system in a fuel cell powered car. Just fewer of them.

Problem with local H generation is the CO2 sequestering. Easier to centralize.

Isn't a 1 size fits all either.
Click to expand...
Local h great band
You high fiving motherfucker
 
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