Bike Fitting/Handling Help

[tim.stevens]

I have been reading all the discussions on bike fitting/tweaking, especially fogerson’s, and would like the forums opinion. Sorry upfront for the long post.

I am 6’1” 220lbs and have a Large Cannondale 29er that I absolutely love. When riding chimney rock, six mile run, and hartshorn, everything about it feels better then my XL Rush did before I sold it to buy this bike.

Bike setup:
Stock controltec bars: very small rise 10-20mm? not cut down
Si 100-120mm stem with medium rise (Jason would know)
Carbon lefty
CrossMax wheels with Nevegal tires

I never had any problems until I figured out how to go faster in the twisties in 6-mile keeping up with tommyjay. Turns out I can keep up (~10mph avg just in twisty section) but have to darn near bring my chest to the stem. My elbows need to be bent at a 90 deg angle. I’m not sure if this is necessary to weight the front end, keep my center of gravity low or a little of both. When I do this it feels like the bike can take any corner at tremendous speeds. The problem is it is not comfortable, and doesn't feel natural or safe. And, I feel like I need to work on my bench press to improve handling skills.

So, my question is, is this normal? Tommyjay doesn’t have to do this. If I get a longer frame then supposedly that would hurt cornering, plus I like being able to get behind the seat for descending at chimney rock. The frame size feels fine for everything else, especially climbing.

If it is not normal what should I be doing different or changing about the bike?

Tim.

 

[clarkenstein]

how long have you been riding?

i'm far extremely far from being a bike handling expert... but it does sound kinda weird that you would have to get in a position like that to make those turns (i know them pretty well). it almost sounds like you are in the 'bite the handlebar' position that one would get in when spinning up a steep climb, while you are riding a completely flat section that is twisty.

i ride an XL niner, i don't know how fast i go through the twisties, not very fast i'm sure, but i hang out pretty much comfortably upright 90% of the time through tight turns at six mile. sometimes i have to dip a shoulder or get a little lower, but that's usually due to close brushes with tree branches or tree trunks if i get moving a bit too fast and lose my line.

do you think you are leaning the bike more into the turn when you are down that low? it could be that you are going into the turns with a more aggressive lean holding yourself low (lowering your center of gravity) versus if you were sitting upright and not feeling as comfortable with the amount of lean you are putting into the turn. if you do tight turns more upright, do you feel like your tires will slip, or that you will tip over?

i don't think you really need to do something as drastic as change frame sizes, unless you feel cramped on your bike... maybe you could try a shorter stem - it should make your steering a bit more responsive (twitchy feeling, which could be what you are looking for). but it sounds more technique/handling oriented than bike fit oriented. but a good bike fit session doesn't hurt anyone i guess.

 

[tim.stevens]

Thanks for the reply

"do you think you are leaning the bike more into the turn when you are down that low? it could be that you are going into the turns with a more aggressive lean holding yourself low (lowering your center of gravity) versus if you were sitting upright and not feeling as comfortable with the amount of lean you are putting into the turn. if you do tight turns more upright, do you feel like your tires will slip, or that you will tip over?"

This is exactly it. In order to keep up with others I have to lean a lot into the turns. I will consistently hit my crank on smooth flat trail if I pedal through the turn. If I don't pull myself into the handle bars the front end washes out. I have always wondered if it is because of my build or maybe lack of proper technique or is this what you have to do to push your limits.

I have been riding since 1991 (old cannondale M700), but only really pushing things ridding with tommyjay since 2005 (cannondale Rush then 29er).

Tim.

 

[clarkenstein]

nice - being a taller guy (6'4) i think i know the feeling. when cranking through those twisties (normally i just kinda meander tho) i stay low, but not as low as it sounds you are. maybe you could try to find a compromise between totally upright and being that low.

when you are in a lot of those turns, think pumptrack - pump the bike through the turns, take advantage of the brief straights between turns by cranking hard to make up for speed lost in the turn... maybe even try a slightly stiffer gear and toss the bike around a little bit more with some more body-english through the turns - that way you are getting the front tire to grab hold almost before you need it to - so you can trust it. start accelerating out of the turn a little quicker than you normally do - that might change your position too. maybe throw a real meaty front tire on for a ride or two so you have some serious grip up front and you know you won't wash out while you play around with your position until you feel better.

i dunno... just tossing some crap out there that you might not have tried yet.

 

[tommyjay]

I never had any problems until I figured out how to go faster in the twisties in 6-mile keeping up with tommyjay.
Tim.

It's not the result of technique nor equipment. It's just because I am SOOO damn fast. :rofl:

Lots of ppl have decided to sell their bikes and take up badminton after a disheartening ride trying to keep up with the 'Jayster. Jayorama. Tommyjayalingadingding. Making copies.

thomas j.

 

[tim.stevens]

You're not helping

It's not the result of technique nor equipment. It's just because I am SOOO damn fast. :rofl:

thomas j.

I concede to your awesomeness

However, If it's not for lack of technique nor equipment, what is it....Magic?

How many people have to pull their chest to the handlebars to maximize their speed through the turns?

Tim.

 

[hardtale70]

Ya gotta get some soul. Take the bike out around the hood and carve it on asphalt then some grass and dirt.Lean it, twist it ,pop off curbs and try some stoppies w/ the front brake.Get funky. Then go back to the trails ,stand up more often and start to use brake drag while moving thru the turns.Front drag will stick the front tire better from the start of a turn to the apex.Also roll and lean only the bike, keep your torso centered, elbows up and out and vision out front(dont stare at the tire) You'll know your gettin it when you're runnin a gear or 2 higher than before, or just give me your lunch $ and I'll take care of this Tommy guy

 

[CycleBoy]

I think what your feeling is a little inherent in 29ers. They are "lazy" in the turns. Being on a 29er for a while I also thought it was strange that the front tire would wash out on me. I adapted to it at this point and learned to countersteer it a little bit. Also, I put a pretty big tire up front and the helps. I use a Panaracer Rampage 2.35 up front right now. That helps a lot.