Another Cyclist Murdered

[Mahnken]

19-Year-Old Winds Up Shot Dead by Dad After Allegedly Breaking Into Home with Mom and Kids Inside

"The suspect was declared deceased at the scene," the local police department said in a statement. The investigation is ongoing.

www.westernjournal.com

This is obviously biased. It makes no mention of the invader having any kind of weapon, and it would if he had, because they claim this could've resulted in a dead family had it not been for 2nd amendment rights. If you want a dead family: https://news.yahoo.com/linden-murder-suicide-family-among-101220864.html

Also, I just don't feel comfortable taking someone's life like that. Situation sounds like it could've been handled with a broomstick.

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

This is obviously biased. It makes no mention of the invader having any kind of weapon, and it would if he had, because they claim this could've resulted in a dead family had it not been for 2nd amendment rights. If you want a dead family: https://news.yahoo.com/linden-murder-suicide-family-among-101220864.html

Also, I just don't feel comfortable taking someone's life like that. Situation sounds like it could've been handled with a broomstick.

Or another way to look at this is don’t break into someone else’s house if you don’t want to end up in jail, or worse, dead. How is it on me if I wake up in the middle of the night because someone is trying to breaking into my LOCKED home? I’m supposed to give the intruder the benefit of the doubt here? Speaking for myself, if some stranger is coming at me in my house in the middle of the night, that’s a hella lot of faith to put into a criminal.

 

[JerseyPete]

Situation sounds like it could've been handled with a boomstick.

 

[ebarker9]

The homeowner may or may not have made the right choice, but I have a hard time with an article using an incident resulting in a dead, likely unarmed 19 year old as a way to tout the benefits of a specific law (particularly before any actual investigation has occurred) and, later, use it as a strange way of making a nonsensical point about Joe Biden and Ukraine. If people want to have a serious conversation about guns, laws, and responsibility, this is not the way to approach it.

 

[thegock]

how many of the guns from the study were legally obtained and, which ones used in what events were legally obtained.

No idea

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

The homeowner may or may not have made the right choice, but I have a hard time with an article using an incident resulting in a dead, likely unarmed 19 year old as a way to tout the benefits of a specific law (particularly before any actual investigation has occurred) and, later, use it as a strange way of making a nonsensical point about Joe Biden and Ukraine. If people want to have a serious conversation about guns, laws, and responsibility, this is not the way to approach it.

I agree that the article is crap, however the bigger point is a line needs to be drawn somewhere, especially in this society where everyone’s bad behavior is blamed on everything but their own accountability. Your home is the one place in the world where you’re supposed to feel safe and secure. It doesn’t matter what bad choices brought someone into someone else’s house in the middle of the night, or whether they are armed or not (plenty of ways to arm yourself in a house). There are consequences, and the benefit of doubt needs to be in favor of the homeowner, not the criminal.

 

[Santapez]

To add to the first part of your post, a minor detail that can make a huge difference, is gun type. A handgun is a hell of a lot more dangerous than say a shotgun - easier to handle, easier to self-harm. And in the hypothetical self-defense situation, a lot more dangerous to neighbors in close quarters. But people seek handguns for self defense and do what @Patrick is saying and leave a loaded gun in a drawer. Add a kid, or add alcohol, or even worse, both and that is where the bad stuff happens.

That’s said - and agree here - is the violence in poor and urban areas. Guns are banned in a lot of major cities, yet the shootings are through the roof. Classifying a drive by as a mass shooting versus the suburban mass shooting - is it the same problem? Do they both need the same solutions? I don’t know.

Completely off-topic ish, but then again this is a thread basically about a guy hit by a car and then stabbed by the driver...

What would you say is the best home defense weapon? I think of those Taurus 410s which can shoot shotgun shells, but seems only good for killing snakes. A huge 12gauge shotgun seems bad for wielding but maybe spray & pray is safer than sending a round into the neighbor's house.

 

[JerseyPete]

Completely off-topic ish, but then again this is a thread basically about a guy hit by a car and then stabbed by the driver...

What would you say is the best home defense weapon? I think of those Taurus 410s which can shoot shotgun shells, but seems only good for killing snakes. A huge 12gauge shotgun seems bad for wielding but maybe spray & pray is safer than sending a round into the neighbor's house.

Every cop I know has told me that a dog is the best home defense. Unfortunately dogs are the child that never grows up and an anchor when you want to take trips.
They also say that a shotgun is best. Limited destruction and distinct sound (pump action).

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

Completely off-topic ish, but then again this is a thread basically about a guy hit by a car and then stabbed by the driver...

What would you say is the best home defense weapon? I think of those Taurus 410s which can shoot shotgun shells, but seems only good for killing snakes. A huge 12gauge shotgun seems bad for wielding but maybe spray & pray is safer than sending a round into the neighbor's house.

Realistically, the first thing to do is call 911 and leave the line open, then sequester yourself somewhere safe with your family until law enforcement arrives or the threat leaves. If you no choice but to engage, engage with what you are most proficient with. If your proficiency level is casual, a 12 gauge is hard to beat. Just point and shoot. Be aware though that no matter what you use, you’ll likely perforate everyone’s ear drums discharging something in a closed space. It’s not like tv where you can then continue to have casual conversation with zero hearing loss. I don’t think any reasonable person ever wants to be in this situation, we want our door locks and alarm systems to do their jobs.

 

[Santapez]

Realistically, the first thing to do is call 911 and leave the line open, then sequester yourself somewhere safe with your family until law enforcement arrives or the threat leaves. If you no choice but to engage, engage with what you are most proficient with. If your proficiency level is casual, a 12 gauge is hard to beat. Just point and shoot. Be aware though that no matter what you use, you’ll likely perforate everyone’s ear drums discharging something in a closed space. It’s not like tv where you can then continue to have casual conversation with zero hearing loss. I don’t think any reasonable person ever wants to be in this situation, we want our door locks and alarm systems to do their jobs.

As a prior gun owner, after the first time going to the range I can never see a movie again where they casually shoot off rounds without cringing at the stupidity.

 

[Ian F]

Where you live can make a difference as well. On my street - which resembles a tightly packed shore town because the houses were originally built for similar reasons - the chances of a missed shot or even over-penetration into a neighbor's house would be extremely high. It would be hard for me to aim in any direction without another house 100' or less away. Especially from my front door.

That said, I have often hypothesized that the reason crime is fairly low in my area is because it's generally blue-collar and you can pretty much assume every house on the street is armed.

 

[clarkenstein]

Realistically, the first thing to do is call 911 and leave the line open, then sequester yourself somewhere safe with your family until law enforcement arrives or the threat leaves. If you no choice but to engage, engage with what you are most proficient with. If your proficiency level is casual, a 12 gauge is hard to beat. Just point and shoot. Be aware though that no matter what you use, you’ll likely perforate everyone’s ear drums discharging something in a closed space. It’s not like tv where you can then continue to have casual conversation with zero hearing loss. I don’t think any reasonable person ever wants to be in this situation, we want our door locks and alarm systems to do their jobs.

Yep. 100% here. Call the cops, don’t engage as long as you can unless you’re in harms way. Stuff is stuff.

@Santapez I was just at the range last week and one of the sales guys has a depth of knowledge and loves to show off the latest and greatest that came in. Showed me a double barrel DP-12 pump. 14+2 depending on shell size. He said after pumping it heartily “this says wrong house in every language”. Gotta admit I had a solid chuckle after hearing that. But that’s what that is for - I wouldn’t want to do much else with it other than look at it. A little much for me.

I’m more of a sporting clays/skeet guy, so a “civilized” 20 ga over-under is more my speed.

 

[serviceguy]

Every cop I know has told me that a dog is the best home defense. Unfortunately dogs are the child that never grows up and an anchor when you want to take trips.
They also say that a shotgun is best. Limited destruction and distinct sound (pump action).

Every cop has never met Bailey then...

 

[JPark]

Every cop I know has told me that a dog is the best home defense. Unfortunately dogs are the child that never grows up and an anchor when you want to take trips.
They also say that a shotgun is best. Limited destruction and distinct sound (pump action).

Not my dog. If the intruder had a treat she'd open the door for him.

 

[Patrick]

Completely off-topic ish, but then again this is a thread basically about a guy hit by a car and then stabbed by the driver...

What would you say is the best home defense weapon? I think of those Taurus 410s which can shoot shotgun shells, but seems only good for killing snakes. A huge 12gauge shotgun seems bad for wielding but maybe spray & pray is safer than sending a round into the neighbor's house.

The sound of chambering a 12 gauge should be enough...

edit: @clarkenstein beat me to it.

 

[Mahnken]

That said, I have often hypothesized that the reason crime is fairly low in my area is because it's generally blue-collar and you can pretty much assume every house on the street is armed.

There a lot of interesting stats about home invasions. I read somewhere, and can't find it now, that the more expensive your house is, the less likely it is to be invaded.

New jersey is also one of the states with the least amount of home invasions. States with less restrictive gun laws actually have much higher rates of home invasions. Homes without alarms are 300% more likely to be broken into. In 65% of invasions the victim knows the invader. Most happen during daylight hours.... Lots of interesting stats to comb through.

 

[carvegybe]

Home invasions are connected to income, education, healthcare...look at the HDI score of the states and overlay this with gun ownership. Guns are a fearful reaction to an environment whose underlying cause is the absence of sufficient social net...aided by a constitutional amendment which is well past its sell-by date.

In the longer term this ultimately leads to a risk of revolt and uprising which will likely be prevented by those holding wealth by causing a shift towards a police state to confine the danger. This isn't yet obvious but the foundations for this shift are being laid. It starts with disinformation, a late-to-respond civil society, and a corporate world hedging its bets. This is all likely to lead to a very dark place but at least capital will be protected... and whether your children or grandchildren can then hold on to that capital will depend on whether they sign up to policies that even you would find extreme and unacceptable...

This is all what history teaches us.

I hope I am wrong.

 

[Ian F]

There a lot of interesting stats about home invasions. I read somewhere, and can't find it now, that the more expensive your house is, the less likely it is to be invaded.

New jersey is also one of the states with the least amount of home invasions. States with less restrictive gun laws actually have much higher rates of home invasions. Homes without alarms are 300% more likely to be broken into. In 65% of invasions the victim knows the invader. Most happen during daylight hours.... Lots of interesting stats to comb through.

That's the thing - the home values in my neighborhood are some of the lowest in the area. But around half the residents are retired, so it's pretty much impossible that something can happen on the street without someone noticing.

But I agree with the above comment about guns being related to a sense of control over one's environment when so much of the world feels out of control. My own interest in guns is from a military history and sport perspective than from personal protection concerns.

 

[JPark]

Home invasions are connected to income, education, healthcare...look at the HDI score of the states and overlay this with gun ownership. Guns are a fearful reaction to an environment whose underlying cause is the absence of sufficient social net...aided by a constitutional amendment which is well past its sell-by date.

In the longer term this ultimately leads to a risk of revolt and uprising which will likely be prevented by those holding wealth by causing a shift towards a police state to confine the danger. This isn't yet obvious but the foundations for this shift are being laid. It starts with disinformation, a late-to-respond civil society, and a corporate world hedging its bets. This is all likely to lead to a very dark place but at least capital will be protected... and whether your children or grandchildren can then hold on to that capital will depend on whether they sign up to policies that even you would find extreme and unacceptable...

This is all what history teaches us.

I hope I am wrong.

View attachment 207970

View attachment 207972

We've already seen the shift to the police state and guns had nothing to do with it.
It was from covid.

 

[Captain Brainstorm]

Home invasions are connected to income, education, healthcare...look at the HDI score of the states and overlay this with gun ownership. Guns are a fearful reaction to an environment whose underlying cause is the absence of sufficient social net...aided by a constitutional amendment which is well past its sell-by date.

That first paragraph is classic communism. Everything else is the justification.

We've already seen the shift to the police state and guns had nothing to do with it.
It was from covid.

Don’t forget climate change, it just hasn’t been as obvious.