Another Cyclist Murdered
- Thread starter xmonger
- Start date
rick81721
Lothar
Curious how you could ever enforce that one.
Mahnken
Well-Known Member
My kids are still young, so it's easy. We'll see how it goes as they get older. But I know people with younger kids, who have guns, and don't actually have a safe to put them in. They are on a high shelf in a room that the kids aren't supposed to go into. Recipe for disaster. I know people with kids who have a gun between their mattresses ready to go. Stupid. And I know people who have their guns and their ammo locked in different safes with different combinations. I'm not convinced older kids wouldn't be able to figure out how to open those safes if they were determined to figure it out. But I'm comfortable enough to bring my family to that house. The other two? No way. In my eyes, having a gun is a liability, not an insurance policy. Especially if you have kids.
There was a local cop who's daughter killed herself with his gun, I think she was 8. Her mom worked in the same hospital as me.
Guy I went to high school with killed himself with his gun. The story was that he was cleaning it and had an accidental discharge. When the cops went to his parents house in the middle of the night to let them know, his mom refused to get her husband and was like just tell me what he did this time. They told her, she screamed, her husband came running to the front door with his gun almost taking a shot at the cops delivering the news.
I've got plenty of other stories from my psych days, but HIPAA.
There's no way anyone could convince me that owning a gun is a good idea. And there's no way I'm going to convince you that owning one is a bad idea. So debating it is pointless.
Personally, I feel Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or something similar would have a much better ROI, without the liabilities.
rick81721
Lothar
Still don't see how it is "easy" at any age. Are you flat out asking your kids friends' parents if they have guns? Obviously asking the question means you are against it so it is highly likely they will just lie.
And everyone has stories. We've had guns for decades. I have plenty of friends with guns. I don't know of anyone who has been injured with said guns.
Mahnken
Well-Known Member
Nonsense. Gun folks don't lie about their guns. They're worse than vegans. Give them a chance to talk about guns and you better have some time on your hands.
Mahnken
Well-Known Member
Haven't been to either of their houses in years. I have no clue if that is still the case.
johnbryanpeters
Well-Known Member
One in 20 US homicides are committed by police – and the numbers aren’t falling
Police killings of any sort account for nearly 5% of all homicides, with at least 1,192 people killed by law enforcement in 2022
www.theguardian.com
tonyride
Don't piss off the red guy
Isn't this a great country? If you want to have guns then you're free, under the constitution, to have guns. If you don't want guns then you're free to not have guns. I don't think this discussion is about making you own guns. This discussion is about the freedom to have them if you want them. Nobody here is making you get them. Yes, there are accidental gun deaths in this country and nobody is disputing that but you're only singling out accidental gun deaths when there are other accidental deaths that you've neglected to mention but you're OK with them or don't mention them because they are not guns. You never hear about how a gun saved lives because the mainstream media never covers it but a little research will provide many examples of how it but it's not the actual use of a gun that saves lives, it's the deterrence that prevents confrontations that's most effective. Criminals are cowards and will always look for the weakest targets. If he wants to rob a business would he rob one that he knows they allow guns or one that proudly displays a "No Guns" sign, which one do you think he's going to rob? A criminal is a criminal and a sign is not going to make him give up his gun. Going back to accidental gun deaths, those are terrible but they can be eliminated with responsible gun ownership. By that I mean proper training, handling, maintenance, and most importantly, storage. This is why I advocate for gun ownership under specific conditions and one of them is education and training. As for suicides, there are many ways of committing suicide and using a gun is just one way. If the person didn't have a gun they'll find another way that can potentially hurt other people. If they had a gun they shoot themselves and they're dead. It's sad but only one person harmed. The problem here is not the tool used to commit the suicide but the desire to end one's own life that's the problem. If they didn't have a gun then they can use a car which will most likely involve crashing it destroying property and possibly hitting other motorists and pedestrians. If they jump off a building or highway overpass they can land on a person or a car. Again, nobody is making you get a gun, just don't prevent us from legally and responsibly owning them.
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tonyride
Don't piss off the red guy
What does this have to do with legal civilian gun ownership? BTW, are those cops just walking up to random people and shooting them? No. The common denominator is they were all running away or resisting arrest but nobody mentions that. Nobody. Want to stop all that? Comply. Stop when told to stop and do not resist arrest, even when you think you're innocent. If you are innocent then sort that out in court.One in 20 US homicides are committed by police – and the numbers aren’t falling
Police killings of any sort account for nearly 5% of all homicides, with at least 1,192 people killed by law enforcement in 2022
Chris(NJ)
Well-Known Member
Hmmm Number one, if you're just talking about a street fight, similar weight/height, one-on-one and there's no weapons involved. Sure, training is probably going to pay dividends well. However, I'd also say nobody is looking to pull a gun in this situation either.
But what if someone comes at you with a knife and all you have is some wrestling skills? you're still going to get cut pretty bad. In fact, I'd say you lose that battle 9.9/10. You're not going to take that knife from them. I dont care what hollywood says.
Now take your original train of thought w/ BJJ (lets say) 4x a week and you'll develop skills, familiarity and control. Do that with a gun and you get the same skills.
My condo unit is funny. Top 3 units, we're all (multiple) gun owners. Bottom floor, none. We feel like we're in a good situation up there. If someone breaks in to our place and the bottom 3 unit occupants wind up dead, the criminals are gonna be in for a surprise when they get up to our floor and at that point, we'll all feel pretty comfortable in our justification to use deadly force lol.
johnbryanpeters
Well-Known Member
It has to do with our increasing drift to a culture of increasing violence, seriously exacerbated by our overreaction to 9/11. The deaths have not been "all running away or resisting arrest," and have included very young children and folks simply existing in their homes.
I'd crank us all back to revolvers and small magazines, which might slow down but not stop the inane and evil volume of shootings.
Chris(NJ)
Well-Known Member
Oh and for the anti-gun crowd who believes if guns are taken from the people, we'll all be safer? From WALES ( lol )
Fatal stabbings in England and Wales at highest level since records began
Fatal stabbings in England and Wales at highest level since records began
johnbryanpeters
Well-Known Member
Wull, that's a fact. People are violent by nature. Interesting that in Great Britain one can't carry a pocket knife, but...
Mahnken
Well-Known Member
funny thing, I can run away from someone with a knife.
Chris(NJ)
Well-Known Member
Ok. I hope you can, if you're ever in that situation. I'm willing to bet those 282 in that article thought they could too.
tonyride
Don't piss off the red guy
Yes, I agree that our culture of violence is increasing mostly due to civil disobedience, lawlessness, sense of entitlement, and disregard for others and their property. It is that culture that has increased police interactions with those who disobey the law. There are out-layers that weren't running away or resisting arrest but did you care to get the stats on that vs. the ones who were running or resisting?
Mahnken
Well-Known Member
This is why I refuse to debate this subject. Nothing you've said here is factual.
Stop trying to deflect the debate to other harmful things like a bad diet that causes diseases that kill more people. Start a new thread to talk about that, this one is about guns, not diabetes, not heart disease, not motor vehicle crashes because of cell phone use.
You claim you're safer owning a gun, I'm claiming that statistically, that's false. That's what I'm getting at.
You obviously know very little about suicide. Owning a gun increases your risk of suicide. Why? because it's easy. It's right there in your closet, just go get and do the damn thing. Jumping off a bridge takes time, you have to get there, gives you a chance to back out, a chance to make a phone call. People that are going to commit suicide are not looking to harm other people (unless of course they are going for suicide by cop after going a shooting spree, with a gun).
xmonger
Active Member
I have a good friend that works in London. He's ex military and is in great shape.
He's been wearing a stab-proof vest to go into the office the last couple of years.
Mahnken
Well-Known Member
Someone pulls a knife on you and sees you going for your gun....you think they're running away just to get shot in the back? Or you think they're going to come at you faster and harder to try and kill you before you can get a shot off? Just cause you have a gun doesn't mean you're in a better position. I don't care what hollywood says.