Recommendations or help with MB Sprinter van stereo upgrade/installation

@soundz thanks for the article. I spent probably an hour chatting with Crutchfield this morning and have a game plan now. Between your post, a couple of others, Crutchfield, and reading some articles I’m pretty comfortable I have some solid direction now. I will post up what there recommendations where later. Side note I’m curious about your van build.
 
soundz said:
I just upgraded my Transit with a Kenwood head unit. Replaced the side door speakers with JBLs + tweeters on a-frame. Added 6x9 JBL coaxial speakers on headliner. These 4 speakers are powered by a Rockford Fosgate 600watt 4-channel amp. 2 JBL 12" subs powered by an Alpine 500 watt mono amp.

I will be adding 4 more speakers to the house and all of these will just be hooked up to the speaker outputs on the head unit. This is so I can listen to things while I'm doing things in the back of the van with just the head unit turned on.

I went into all of this w/o knowing anything about car install and took my time doing it and I'd say it took about a month, but I was also trying to get all of my electrical wiring done to the dashboard area all at the same time. There was also a lot of the time I was waiting for parts and tools to come in. I winged it all w/o making any kind of wiring and layout plans so I had to pause a lot to think about things as I was working. Adding time was that I decided not to get an aftermarket harness, but directly soldered each wire to the van dash console. I guess you can say I took things 1 wire at a time.

Off the bat, the problem you will face w/o buying a new head unit is that most likely the factory head unit will only have wires that go out the 2 speakers. So the only upgrade you can do is replace the factory speakers. You need a head unit that has a separate output for the sub.

I will take that back and say that technically speaking, you could just wire a sub to one of your door speakers with the option of throwing crossover in between (so your sub doesn't sound too crappy and doesn't get damaged), but the factory head unit probably was not designed to handle that kind of load.

Better, you could hook up the sub(s) to the rear speakers outputs on your factory unit (assuming rear speaker outs exists on your factory unit and you are currently not powering any rear speakers). You could theoretically wire sub(s) to one or both of those rear speaker outputs. But you'll probably want a crossover in between so you're not sending high frequencies to the sub. Mostly likely you are under-powering the sub but should be somewhat ok as long as you are not too crazy with the volume knob. Some of the deep deep frequencies also may not be present because I don't know if your factory unit speaker outputs are filtering them out. I think it's kind of a hack job, but could work.

Most of the aftermarket head units these days I think have 4 speaker outs (for stock front and rear speakers). 4 audio outs (to power speakers with amps). 2 audio sub outs (to power sub(s) with amp(s)). The problem is replacing the head unit adds a whole new level of install complexity and adding an amp adds some complexity as well.

@qclabrat I don't think sound tech has changed much, but stuff like power management, navigation, backup camera, steering wheel control, etc.. has or has been added. On my car the 12v switched power (i.e. power when car is started) was non-existent because it is handled by some kind of a bus system. So to start, I had my head unit hooked up to one of the cigarette sockets which has a 20 minute timer on it. Now, I have everything powered by my house battery instead of the car battery and a separate switch system under my cup holders to turn all my sound things on and off.

@cdrmtbiker @johnbryanpeters You're free to come over to discuss or work on van things with me, but I live pretty far away, at least from Allaire, in Sparta.
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I would definitely suggestion using a harness beats trying to merge a harness in the car. Also soldering will crack so crimp caps are usually the way to go.

You can pull the 2 front channels and distribute them over 6 (front rear sub) and if much hasn't changed the amp will take high(head unit speaker) signal and work fine. If not a lineout converter is an option.

Regarding the sub if he picks the right amp it should have an onboard low pass filter. But underpowering a sub can still blow it as it's distortion that blows speakers for the most part.

I really like this stuff what's are you running in your rig, do you have a higher output amp?
 
cdrmtbiker said:
It’s for a Winnebago Revel RV. I would like to keep the stock head unit and replace the door speakers and add a subwoofer at minimum. I’m not sure if I should or could add speakers behind the front seats. I may need an amp but I’m not sure. The stereo in there now is garbage. Last stereo install I did was over 20 years ago so I’m just looking for someone who can help me brainstorm ideas and then help with the install. I’m near Allaire but wouldn’t mind traveling if the person really knows what they are doing.
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What's your seating config?
 
cdrmtbiker said:
@soundz thanks for all the information. This is very helpful. I totally forgot about faroutride.com. I have spent a lot of time on their site when I originally thought about building out my own van.

I have done some more digging online and after reading your post I have a bunch of questions I need to figure out.

1. I originally thought that I want to get the best sound I can using the factory head unit. Reason being is because everything on this van is electronic and even to check my oil I have to use the onboard computer. No dipstick. I also have a rear camera and sensors. I don't know if the head unit is just a display or if there is a computer in there gathering data. This is where newer technology has confused. 20 years ago it was rip out the old stereo and put a new one in. I have to figure out if an aftermarket head unit gives me all the features of the factory one. I also like the clean look of the factory unit. With that said I'm going to try to use the factory head unit first.
2. I have considered adding tweeters to the pillar but there are airbags in there so I hesitate here. I'm sure it can be done though.
3. One good thing I have discovered...I believe the van is pre-wired for rear speakers so that I can hook up a sub to them.
4. I'm not sure if just upgrading 2 door speakers, adding a sub, amp, cross-over if needed, and disconnecting the center channel will provide the sound that makes me happy. I'm not sure how clear the sound coming out of the head unit is regardless of speaker quality. This gets me thinking is there a way to improve the factory head unit sound or am I now just wasting money. Maybe I upgrade the speakers first and then I could always upgrade the head unit later. So will good speakers and an amp alone make a difference?
5. I have seen people mount subs behind the seats on these vans so I think I have a location for this.
6. I have to figure out where to mount the amp and how to wire the amp and speakers.

I'm going to spend some time today on the Revel 4x4 FB group. There are a few people on there who have upgraded the stereo.
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1. do other trim levels offer a better head unit?

I've done this in an older car and I am considering the same with my wife's 15 forester.

2. Your payoffs for tweeters properly staged isn't worth the hassle unless you have taken other steps like deadning and other shit that isn't worth your time at this stage.

3. Check where those rears would be located if it was wired for it so you don't have to assume anymore but it won't matter if you're going to amplify.

4. Good speakers help then add an amp if you're not satisfied then keep adding till you are. Personally I'd go for a DSP amp and speakers, the last car amps I had carried onboard dsp(zapco) and maybe that has trickled down so you can correct your head unit's processing.

5. Put the sub where convenient you're in a van.

6. You should run signal and power separately, let your battery dictate what side you run power and don't skimp on power wire, do yourself a favor and get a distribution block for the battery(copper or aluminum) so your not piggy backing on a 20 gage plate that already has 120 amps running through it.

So if your battery is on the driver side that's where you'll run your power wire and tap into your floor for ground bonus if it's backed by your frame triple bonus if it's backed by your gas tank 🤣 (don't screw into your gas tank it's a joke). Aim for under the seat or as close to the battery as you can so you have less resistance. Then run your signal on the other side of the car not down the side of your trans tunnel or next to the power line.

A tip for you and @soundz running wires in a car makes you question your life decisions and how you ended up here. Buy a big fucking zip tie like 4 feet long cut the zip end off and electric tape onto the end to attach the wire to route the wire and pull the zip tie through. They're worth their weight in insulin.
 
@The Landfill of Slacktown

1. do other trim levels offer a better head unit? I have the upgraded MBUX head unit and from what I understand the sound is pretty decent with better speakers. There is a center channel right above the dash that bounces off the windshield and you cannot hear the door speakers. I'm going to unplug this when I get the van back to see what it sounds like. I hear it is a lot better.

2. Your payoffs for tweeters properly staged isn't worth the hassle unless you have taken other steps like deadning and other shit that isn't worth your time at this stage. When I take the doors apart I'm going to insulate them with wool and then put sound deadening around the speaker. I just have to figure out where to put the sound deadening for the speaker.

3. Check where those rears would be located if it was wired for it so you don't have to assume anymore but it won't matter if you're going to amplify. I found out that under the driver seat there is a speaker connection for rear speakers. I confirmed this reading the MB upfitter manual.

4. Good speakers help then add an amp if you're not satisfied then keep adding till you are. Personally I'd go for a DSP amp and speakers, the last car amps I had carried onboard dsp(zapco) and maybe that has trickled down so you can correct your head unit's processing. After speaking with Crutchfield my plan is two door speakers, the guy recommended Morel and I just have to figure out if I'm going 6.5 inch coaxial or component speakers. I have to dig into this some more. He recommended a Kicker amp to power the speakers and then a powered 8" Kicker sub. I plan on locating the amp under the passenger seat and then the sub behind the drivers seat. I have to figure out where I'm getting power from. There is a power connection under the drivers seat which I found reading the MB upfitter manual. If this doesn't provide enough the battery is about 2 feet away next to the drivers feet inside the van. This is probably my biggest hurdle. Figuring out how to hook up power. I want to do this right. The rest seems pretty easy now that I've spent some time digging into this. I will also probably get a DSP because I feel like I'm putting a lot of work into this so why not? Crutchfield said a DSP will make a huge difference.

5. Put the sub where convenient you're in a van. Yup

6. You should run signal and power separately, let your battery dictate what side you run power and don't skimp on power wire, do yourself a favor and get a distribution block for the battery(copper or aluminum) so your not piggy backing on a 20 gage plate that already has 120 amps running through it. Yeah this is what I need to figure out. Like mentioned earlier there is power under the drivers seat. I just need to understand what this is. See attached file from upfitters manual. I just need to understand what these connections are.

So if your battery is on the driver side that's where you'll run your power wire and tap into your floor for ground bonus if it's backed by your frame triple bonus if it's backed by your gas tank 🤣 (don't screw into your gas tank it's a joke). Aim for under the seat or as close to the battery as you can so you have less resistance. Then run your signal on the other side of the car not down the side of your trans tunnel or next to the power line. Understood. I just have to figure out how I'm running the audio to the amp...I'm assuming it will have to be using speaker wire from the head unit via a line output converter.

I didn't know anything this morning but I feel like I made a lot of progress today. What are your thoughts on speaker and amp brands?
 

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qclabrat said:
I didn't check the specs so wasn't sure if you had captain chairs. The Focal components at Crutchfield looks interesting
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Yes swivel captains chairs. The guy I spoke with recommended Morel speakers. I have never heard of them before.
 
Thanks everyone for commenting it has really helped me think thru this and figure out what needs to be done.
 
cdrmtbiker said:
@The Landfill of Slacktown

1. do other trim levels offer a better head unit? I have the upgraded MBUX head unit and from what I understand the sound is pretty decent with better speakers. There is a center channel right above the dash that bounces off the windshield and you cannot hear the door speakers. I'm going to unplug this when I get the van back to see what it sounds like. I hear it is a lot better.

2. Your payoffs for tweeters properly staged isn't worth the hassle unless you have taken other steps like deadning and other shit that isn't worth your time at this stage. When I take the doors apart I'm going to insulate them with wool and then put sound deadening around the speaker. I just have to figure out where to put the sound deadening for the speaker.

3. Check where those rears would be located if it was wired for it so you don't have to assume anymore but it won't matter if you're going to amplify. I found out that under the driver seat there is a speaker connection for rear speakers. I confirmed this reading the MB upfitter manual.

4. Good speakers help then add an amp if you're not satisfied then keep adding till you are. Personally I'd go for a DSP amp and speakers, the last car amps I had carried onboard dsp(zapco) and maybe that has trickled down so you can correct your head unit's processing. After speaking with Crutchfield my plan is two door speakers, the guy recommended Morel and I just have to figure out if I'm going 6.5 inch coaxial or component speakers. I have to dig into this some more. He recommended a Kicker amp to power the speakers and then a powered 8" Kicker sub. I plan on locating the amp under the passenger seat and then the sub behind the drivers seat. I have to figure out where I'm getting power from. There is a power connection under the drivers seat which I found reading the MB upfitter manual. If this doesn't provide enough the battery is about 2 feet away next to the drivers feet inside the van. This is probably my biggest hurdle. Figuring out how to hook up power. I want to do this right. The rest seems pretty easy now that I've spent some time digging into this. I will also probably get a DSP because I feel like I'm putting a lot of work into this so why not? Crutchfield said a DSP will make a huge difference.

5. Put the sub where convenient you're in a van. Yup

6. You should run signal and power separately, let your battery dictate what side you run power and don't skimp on power wire, do yourself a favor and get a distribution block for the battery(copper or aluminum) so your not piggy backing on a 20 gage plate that already has 120 amps running through it. Yeah this is what I need to figure out. Like mentioned earlier there is power under the drivers seat. I just need to understand what this is. See attached file from upfitters manual. I just need to understand what these connections are.

So if your battery is on the driver side that's where you'll run your power wire and tap into your floor for ground bonus if it's backed by your frame triple bonus if it's backed by your gas tank 🤣 (don't screw into your gas tank it's a joke). Aim for under the seat or as close to the battery as you can so you have less resistance. Then run your signal on the other side of the car not down the side of your trans tunnel or next to the power line. Understood. I just have to figure out how I'm running the audio to the amp...I'm assuming it will have to be using speaker wire from the head unit via a line output converter.

I didn't know anything this morning but I feel like I made a lot of progress today. What are your thoughts on speaker and amp brands?
Click to expand...

You will need to decide how much amplifier you want and then determine if this power under the driver seat is really going to be enough. If you are driving four speakers plus a sub with say 4x50 plus 100, I would run dedicated power like @The Landfill of Slacktown has detailed. Also check to be sure your alternator is going to be able to handle the additional draw.

8 inch sub sounds small, but it is right in the van behind you. Is it sealed, ported or band pass. I would think if you can fit a 10 or 12" to go that route. It can go a little deeper and likely be cleaner.
 
@cdrmtbiker

1. do other trim levels offer a better head unit? I have the upgraded MBUX head unit and from what I understand the sound is pretty decent with better speakers. There is a center channel right above the dash that bounces off the windshield and you cannot hear the door speakers. I'm going to unplug this when I get the van back to see what it sounds like. I hear it is a lot better.
you're just moving the stage to whats expected.... anyway have you considered an free air sub and drop it in your dash with like <75 watts might sound stupid but could be really convenient lol

2. Your payoffs for tweeters properly staged isn't worth the hassle unless you have taken other steps like deadning and other shit that isn't worth your time at this stage. When I take the doors apart I'm going to insulate them with wool and then put sound deadening around the speaker. I just have to figure out where to put the sound deadening for the speaker.
no wool unless you know of any that wont get moldy and gross, deaden what rattles(I always did door skin speaker surrounding and foam tape the contact point from the door panel to door)

3. Check where those rears would be located if it was wired for it so you don't have to assume anymore but it won't matter if you're going to amplify. I found out that under the driver seat there is a speaker connection for rear speakers. I confirmed this reading the MB upfitter manual.
leave it alone, factory wiring is for factory components this sounds like heated seats


4. Good speakers help then add an amp if you're not satisfied then keep adding till you are. Personally I'd go for a DSP amp and speakers, the last car amps I had carried onboard dsp(zapco) and maybe that has trickled down so you can correct your head unit's processing. After speaking with Crutchfield my plan is two door speakers, the guy recommended Morel and I just have to figure out if I'm going 6.5 inch coaxial or component speakers. I have to dig into this some more. He recommended a Kicker amp to power the speakers and then a powered 8" Kicker sub. I plan on locating the amp under the passenger seat and then the sub behind the drivers seat. I have to figure out where I'm getting power from. There is a power connection under the drivers seat which I found reading the MB upfitter manual. If this doesn't provide enough the battery is about 2 feet away next to the drivers feet inside the van. This is probably my biggest hurdle. Figuring out how to hook up power. I want to do this right. The rest seems pretty easy now that I've spent some time digging into this. I will also probably get a DSP because I feel like I'm putting a lot of work into this so why not? Crutchfield said a DSP will make a huge difference.
Front stage is what will dominate what you hear spend the majority of your budge here, the rears are next to pointless recyle your stock fronts in the rear you can always upgrade down the road if you find you need to. Play with the fade(?) is a sedan, get the speakers to normal listening volume and then drop the rear speakers, you'll hardly notice since they're firing not towards your ears and obstructed by the seats.

Power straight from a battery, you don't want fight with factory 16 gage(made of a tin air mix... and 20 amp fuses), I'm going to assume you need 8 or 4 gage wire depending on power and run length(amp manual should have recommendations. If you're not using a high output alternator do your self a favor and do a big three upgrade to help power flow easier, also if you are going to be running it with your car off consider a second battery that has one of those things that isolates it from the battery that will drive your starter.

connecting it by using a distribution block, chop your factory wires plug this in the amp power, a disco ball, auxiliary lights and so on. Since you don't have to go through the fire wall to get to the battery poke a hole through the carpet and fish it to the battery. doing the ground is harder, removing paint for mounting the ground, making sure where you're grounding has nothing on the other end but that is easy as shit as well stop over thinking it
1600046573905.png

make sure w.e. DSP you pick has a user friendly interface and not some shit on board 2x16 character screen

5. Put the sub where convenient you're in a van. Yup

6. You should run signal and power separately, let your battery dictate what side you run power and don't skimp on power wire, do yourself a favor and get a distribution block for the battery(copper or aluminum) so your not piggy backing on a 20 gage plate that already has 120 amps running through it. Yeah this is what I need to figure out. Like mentioned earlier there is power under the drivers seat. I just need to understand what this is. See attached file from upfitters manual. I just need to understand what these connections are.
fuck it I'll look at this PDF :|

don't bother its only 25 amps, its not going to be enough but you could use terminal 15 for the amp turn on but you might consider using your radio's ignition turn on for troubleshooting purposes. Example if the amp isn't turning on but the radio is on then you most likely blew a fuse but you at least know if isn't your turn on.

So if your battery is on the driver side that's where you'll run your power wire and tap into your floor for ground bonus if it's backed by your frame triple bonus if it's backed by your gas tank 🤣 (don't screw into your gas tank it's a joke). Aim for under the seat or as close to the battery as you can so you have less resistance. Then run your signal on the other side of the car not down the side of your trans tunnel or next to the power line. Understood. I just have to figure out how I'm running the audio to the amp...I'm assuming it will have to be using speaker wire from the head unit via a line output converter.

tap into it from the back of the headunit so you can grab 4 channels and keep the balance and fade control from your head unit, if your car is processing stereo audio you'll lose half the stage. Kicker amps should be able to process high level input so you don't have to use a line output converter. Behind the headunit go slave to RCA male, use your RCA source cable and run it to the amp and the amp will convert appropriately.

I didn't know anything this morning but I feel like I made a lot of progress today. What are your thoughts on speaker and amp brands?
regarding brand this list has been around since I was in middle school some of it is no longer relevant but for the most of it is and it is s good guiding hand

kicker is fine
morel is great(unless they were bought up to some chinese investment company and gutted, fuck an american company would do the same thing)
 
Mr.Moto said:
You will need to decide how much amplifier you want and then determine if this power under the driver seat is really going to be enough. If you are driving four speakers plus a sub with say 4x50 plus 100, I would run dedicated power like @The Landfill of Slacktown has detailed. Also check to be sure your alternator is going to be able to handle the additional draw.

8 inch sub sounds small, but it is right in the van behind you. Is it sealed, ported or band pass. I would think if you can fit a 10 or 12" to go that route. It can go a little deeper and likely be cleaner.
Click to expand...


if he has an isolated battery or deep cell battery he should survive if shits dimming or revs are dropping then start upgrading(big three, battery, alt in that order)

holy shit have not seen the words band pass in forever, an 8 should be fine they're tight and quick, plus box size going from 8 to 10 makes a huge difference in box sizes
 
@The Landfill of Slacktown thanks for the help.

Wool insulation is very mold resistant, I won't bore you with links.

Understood on the battery power connection. Where can I find those distribution blocks? Everything I search for looks like plastic garbage. I found some made by XS that is similar.

I'm pretty sure the alternator is 220 amps. I'm not looking for front row Metallica volume so I think it will be under 1,000 watts of power so I think I'm okay but we'll see. It's only going to be 2 speakers in the door, 2 tweeters in the dash, and a subwoofer (a smallish one).

You lost me with the "tap into it from the back of the headunit so you can grab 4 channels..." Because I am using the factory headunit I will not have RCA jacks behind the head unit. So I either have to take the speaker wires behind the headunit and use an LOC to convert to RCA and then RCA to the amp OR get an amp that has speaker level inputs. Then run new speaker wires from the amp to the door speakers. Then I was going to use the disconnected center channel speaker and run that as audio to the powered subwoofer unless the amp I get has just an audio out (I'm not sure if this is even a thing). I also now understand I have to have a signal wire to tell the amp and maybe powered sub to turn on. I can work this out with Crutchfield. I've pretty much have a high level picture of what I need to do but feel free to keep throwing thoughts/ideas it is helpful.
 
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