help spec'ing out a new computer

qclabrat

qclabrat

Well-Known Member
my daughter takes a lot of engineering and design classes in HS and our computers at home aren't cutting it. Between a 3 year old Dell workstation with i5 and a one year old Lenovo laptop with i7, neither are doing the job. She runs a fair amount of 3D modeling on AutoCAD Revit and the rendering time is probably the biggest issue. I started researching for a new computer this past week and figured with my computer background, it wouldn't take long to pick something out. Wrong...

Though the parts are generally the same, specs/details are completely different from the Xeon servers I used to build for work/home use 20 years ago. I'd prefer to just buy a complete system but not opposed to building if that's the most sensible route. First considered a gaming computer as I imagined it would have similar technical specs, but apparently not so. I personally have not clue what makes a good gaming computer, but just noticed it's not so much about the CPU. Here's some user requirements and info I've picked up the last few days on the web. Mucho gracias for those chiming in.

- Workstation or Desktop form factor (I'll pony up for a good laptop when she goes to college)

- i7 or Xeon? new i9?? don't think I'll need a dual CPU. I've read a bunch on Xeon vs i7 comparison but nothing was conclusive. Hear Gen 7 i7s can overclock to more than a Xeon, but Xeon more cores. Clock speed I hear is important to rendering and since Revit is multi-thread will need multi-core CPU.

- how much memory and what type? Some of those files she works with is pretty damn big, 32 or 64GB?

The next two is where it gets the most fuzzy; storage and graphics card. Still reading on these as I'm not sure whether to go full SSD NVMe vs hybrid with HDDs. For GPUs most recommend either a AMD FirePro or Nvidia Quadro. No real experience on these so could use some help.
 
I am not familiar with AutoCAD (in 3d, it is reserved for 2-d use only)or REVIT however I am a mechanical Engineer and I work in design using CAD/CAM software (we use CREO and ANYSIS) everyday, among the different computers that we have the biggest effect on rendering is a good graphics card,

Most of our new machines at work have as follows
16-32GB ram (we have one with 64 but thats mainly built for FEA type work which is much more RAM intensive than modeling/design)
current gen I7, (we have a couple older Xenon processor machines, they are ok, but the Quad core I7 with HT runs our analysis faster with no noticable degradation in graphics)
SSD (for OS and programs)
2TB HDD (for storage ONLY)
Nvidia Geforce graphics (745 is the lowest one, the machines with the 960 preform much better, we dont have any of the 10 series cards YET, but id imagine they are even better).


if you think a more core approach is preferred AMD makes 8 core processors now (and for the last few years, i have one at home and while i wouldnt put that molten blob in a laptop it cools just fine in a desktop with the right fans/heatsinks)


if you have any questions feel free to PM me and ill answer as best i can
 
can't answer all of it but I went thru this two months ago. I work from home on my own machine so this is my baby:
  1. just i5/i7 is no longer enough, there are 7 generations of each so you have to look at the processor designation (i5-7xxx, i7-6xxx, etc)
  2. I have gone through several desktops, you don't really need them unless she is going to add a lot of HW or use a very high-end graphics card, etc (plus every time I install something on a desktop for work, I have to go visit a client and don;t have it with me)
  3. memory: I buy the most RAM offered, never regretted it, the delta is usually small (or you can add it yourself, easy enough)
  4. unless she needs good graphics (I am an engineer so I go for performance) I'd look at business laptops. Dell Small Business usually has reasonably priced laptops that outperform more expensive "personal" ones but have less of things like 3D audio, high-end graphics, touch-screen, etc. Dell SB Outlet has good prices EDIT: I just saw the AutoCAD, Dell SB also has CAD laptops
  5. I went with SSD and 12" Latitute e5270, very light and small when I travel
  6. for home I bought a docking station so everything stays plugged in (3 monitors, external HDD & CDROM, 2 USB port expanders, etc. etc, so far it has not complained)
  7. get one of those fan-bases; even with no HD the laptop gets hot from running all day
I know nothing about GPUs because I don't play games or do graphics-intensive things.
 
Last edited:
I do consulting for a living have a few engineering companies that I assist, I can tell you that a Core i7 is minimum and most likely sufficient, go with the workstation form factor, not a desktop. Workstations are designed with a larger power supply in mind to handle the more powerful graphics card. I would do a minimum of 4GB of memory in my graphics cards, I usually recommend HP so I would say this is a good model T4N76UT#ABA . Mind you this is a business PC and not a retail PC so it will be running Windows Pro, if you go with retail from a Micro Center or something you can shave off a few hundred.

Depending on your budget, of course, there are literally thousands of options.
 
BPaze said:
I do consulting for a living have a few engineering companies that I assist, I can tell you that a Core i7 is minimum and most likely sufficient, go with the workstation form factor, not a desktop. Workstations are designed with a larger power supply in mind to handle the more powerful graphics card. I would do a minimum of 4GB of memory in my graphics cards, I usually recommend HP so I would say this is a good model T4N76UT#ABA . Mind you this is a business PC and not a retail PC so it will be running Windows Pro, if you go with retail from a Micro Center or something you can shave off a few hundred.

Depending on your budget, of course, there are literally thousands of options.
Click to expand...


Oh and buying a single unit as opposed to building a unit will simplify warranty management if an issue were to occur
 
shrpshtr325 said:
I am not familiar with AutoCAD (in 3d, it is reserved for 2-d use only)or REVIT however I am a mechanical Engineer and I work in design using CAD/CAM software (we use CREO and ANYSIS) everyday, among the different computers that we have the biggest effect on rendering is a good graphics card,

Most of our new machines at work have as follows
16-32GB ram (we have one with 64 but thats mainly built for FEA type work which is much more RAM intensive than modeling/design)
current gen I7, (we have a couple older Xenon processor machines, they are ok, but the Quad core I7 with HT runs our analysis faster with no noticable degradation in graphics)
SSD (for OS and programs)
2TB HDD (for storage ONLY)
Nvidia Geforce graphics (745 is the lowest one, the machines with the 960 preform much better, we dont have any of the 10 series cards YET, but id imagine they are even better).


if you think a more core approach is preferred AMD makes 8 core processors now (and for the last few years, i have one at home and while i wouldnt put that molten blob in a laptop it cools just fine in a desktop with the right fans/heatsinks)


if you have any questions feel free to PM me and ill answer as best i can
Click to expand...
I've heard people having loads of problems rendering with even the new AMD Ryzen, which has 16 cores. Interested in knowing about your setup. The E7 and E5 Xeons have up to 24 cores. More cores I believe can also slow down the GHz so its a balancing act I guess to have the right spec. Much of the Autodesk suite uses up to 36 threads, now that's some crazy utilization there!

Interesting that you guys are using Geforce cards for rendering, I'm pretty much sold on getting th Quadro or FirePro. I have 2GB GeForce card on the newish laptop and it's still takes good 5-10 mins to render big files. You might have seen this, but here's Nvida's comparison between the two GPUs: http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_geforce.html
 
Which GeForce model? the difference between models is very significat, the difference between mobile and desktop versions is huge
 
ilnadi said:
can't answer all of it but I went thru this two months ago. I work from home on my own machine so this is my baby:
  1. just i5/i7 is no longer enough, there are 7 generations of each so you have to look at the processor designation (i5-7xxx, i7-6xxx, etc)
  2. I have gone through several desktops, you don't really need them unless she is going to add a lot of HW or use a very high-end graphics card, etc (plus every time I install something on a desktop for work, I have to go visit a client and don;t have it with me)
  3. memory: I buy the most RAM offered, never regretted it, the delta is usually small (or you can add it yourself, easy enough)
  4. unless she needs good graphics (I am an engineer so I go for performance) I'd look at business laptops. Dell Small Business usually has reasonably priced laptops that outperform more expensive "personal" ones but have less of things like 3D audio, high-end graphics, touch-screen, etc. Dell SB Outlet has good prices EDIT: I just saw the AutoCAD, Dell SB also has CAD laptops
  5. I went with SSD and 12" Latitute e5270, very light and small when I travel
  6. for home I bought a docking station so everything stays plugged in (3 monitors, external HDD & CDROM, 2 USB port expanders, etc. etc, so far it has not complained)
  7. get one of those fan-bases; even with no HD the laptop gets hot from running all day
I know nothing about GPUs because I don't play games or do graphics-intensive things.
Click to expand...
My brother who uses a lot of the same software as my daughter (he's an architect) has a Surface Pro and thinks its the bee's knees. I plan on getting one for her when she heads out to school. I'll look at the small biz side of the Dell site. thanks
 
My twins are going off to college in two weeks... sob, sniffle.

Ones going for mechanical engineering and the other for chemistry. Chem boy's school basically mandated MacBook pros for all students so that one was easy, spendy, but easy. The other is taking a Razor Blade 1080. Don't look at the price.... No I don't want to talk about it.

But if it can run witcher3 it'll crush the modeling software.

Sample build.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...s-serp..4.9.1631...35i39k1j0i20k1._HJyz0jsp6k
 
qclabrat said:
I've heard people having loads of problems rendering with even the new AMD Ryzen, which has 16 cores. Interested in knowing about your setup. The E7 and E5 Xeons have up to 24 cores. More cores I believe can also slow down the GHz so its a balancing act I guess to have the right spec. Much of the Autodesk suite uses up to 36 threads, now that's some crazy utilization there!

Interesting that you guys are using Geforce cards for rendering, I'm pretty much sold on getting th Quadro or FirePro. I have 2GB GeForce card on the newish laptop and it's still takes good 5-10 mins to render big files. You might have seen this, but here's Nvida's comparison between the two GPUs: http://www.nvidia.com/object/quadro_geforce.html
Click to expand...


I have noticed that more cores typically results in lower CPU speed, there is definitely a balancing act you have to take into account,

When i get home i will check what the actual specs are for my desktop, but its on the older side (built at the beginning of 2013) so may not be all that relevant to current product availability, but it works very well for what i do, including simulator usage (this is not work related). the 8 true cores was the best available for a consumer chip at the time (i know server/commercial chips would go more but that was $$$$ that i didnt want to spend)

if you want the full specs on the computers here at work let me know i can log into the shared lab machines and get you the specs for those, they are all Dell machines.
 
With the price point coming down I would go for an SSD instead of HDD my buddy who is a gamer just bought the AMD chip with a 500 SSD for OS and programs and a 1 TB for storage.... has not seen any issues with it yet.
 
GeForce GTX 1070 is up-to 10 times faster than 940MX in some synthetic tests, not sure about AutoCAD
 
Juggernaut said:
My twins are going off to college in two weeks... sob, sniffle.

Ones going for mechanical engineering and the other for chemistry. Chem boy's school basically mandated MacBook pros for all students so that one was easy, spendy, but easy. The other is taking a Razor Blade 1080. Don't look at the price.... No I don't want to talk about it.

But if it can run witcher3 it'll crush the modeling software.

Sample build.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...s-serp..4.9.1631...35i39k1j0i20k1._HJyz0jsp6k
Click to expand...
I looked at the 1080, its a more for gaming
someone pulling the wool over your eyes bro....
great computer tho
 
shrpshtr325 said:
I have noticed that more cores typically results in lower CPU speed, there is definitely a balancing act you have to take into account,

When i get home i will check what the actual specs are for my desktop, but its on the older side (built at the beginning of 2013) so may not be all that relevant to current product availability, but it works very well for what i do, including simulator usage (this is not work related). the 8 true cores was the best available for a consumer chip at the time (i know server/commercial chips would go more but that was $$$$ that i didnt want to spend)

if you want the full specs on the computers here at work let me know i can log into the shared lab machines and get you the specs for those, they are all Dell machines.
Click to expand...
the work specs would be great, if you can PM me thanks

yeah those upgrades are expensive, already butting up against 4K, was hoping to be around 3
upload_2017-8-9_15-42-17.png
 
qclabrat said:
I looked at the 1080, its a more for gaming
someone pulling the wool over your eyes bro....
great computer tho
Click to expand...

Rendering is rendering. And yes, def a gamer LT but he was paying for half of whatever he picked so.... yeah. It was actually the spec below I was referring to. ..... happy shopping. :)
 
AMD keeps trying, but even the Ryzen can't hang. Used to be a fan of the underdog but left them a while ago.
 
I work for an MEP engineering firm modeling in Revit and AutoCAD. My work laptop is an HP Z-Book with Intel i7-6700HQ CPU @2.6GHz with 40Gb ram.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom