I am a transgender woman and I occasionally race my bike. AMA

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Santapez said:
Nothing to do with Morgan's post, however I assume she's interested just as any other people...

VeloNews Podcast 110 has a lengthy interview with Rachel McKinnon. While I may disagree with her on a couple of her points, it's nice to hear her talk about it at length as opposed to quick sound bites.
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Yeah, the interview starts about 29 minutes in.
 
sptimmy43 said:
Ok, back on topic.

Morgan, my question is:

Can you see how or why cisgender women who are supportive of transgender individuals may feel genuinely diminished by a transgender woman winning an athletic competition against cisgender women?
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This has been a rough couple of days emotionally, so I think this may be my last post in this thread. I appreciate that most of the questions in here have been respectful. It hasn’t been so easy on some other forums, and I’m worn out from justifying my existence and trying to educate people who already have their minds made up.

Quite frankly, no, I can’t understand it. If these hypothetical cisgender women recognized all of the hurdles we have to clear before we ever line up for our first race, I think those objections would disappear.

I wouldn’t wish gender dysphoria on my worst enemy.

It’s nearly midnight. I’ve been up since 5am. Maybe I’ll add some more thoughts to this in the morning. Maybe not. I’m tired.
 
Just wondering if anyone recalls any biological women crossing over into men's sports and competing successfully after becoming transgender?
 
mstyer said:
Quite frankly, no, I can’t understand it. If these hypothetical cisgender women recognized all of the hurdles we have to clear before we ever line up for our first race, I think those objections would disappear.
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I have to focus on this, and point out that these things are not mutually exclusive. I think this is the next step in why this conversation is so difficult. Here is a realistic set of statements:

Cisgender Woman: As a woman, I understand what it feels like to be oppressed in this society.
Cisgender Woman: I also appreciate (but cannot fully understand) the struggles you go through as a transgender female/male.
Cisgender Woman: I also feel that a transgender female may be playing with a competitive advantage in athletic endeavors.

Again, these statements are not mutually exclusive. In speaking with several women off the record, I can tell you that those 3 opinions are held by a large number of women.

As a transgender female, you have these 2 options to move this narrative forward (IMO):

Transgender Woman: I understand all your points. And I want to educate you why you are incorrect on point #3.
or
Transgender Woman: I don't understand your perspective.

I am speaking wildly without experience here, so forgive me for this extension. But it can also be argued that you, growing up as a man, don't actually have the appreciation that a cisgender woman has for being essentially repressed her whole life, from birth. You have faced hurdles that the vast majority of us will never face, I admit. But as a transgender woman, I would think that one of the things that you need to try to embrace is the perspective of the cisgender woman.

I think you need to be able to say: Ok...I see your point. I may not agree with it. But I am going to try to understand it and work through why we disagree and try to come to a better understanding.

For myself, I have done exactly that. I have come into this discussion with an open mind. And I will admit, reading more about this and having these conversations has changed my perspective.

I don't have any additional questions. And again, I can appreciate the difficulty in this. Thanks for taking the time.
 
mstyer said:
This has been a rough couple of days emotionally, so I think this may be my last post in this thread. I appreciate that most of the questions in here have been respectful. It hasn’t been so easy on some other forums, and I’m worn out from justifying my existence and trying to educate people who already have their minds made up.

Quite frankly, no, I can’t understand it. If these hypothetical cisgender women recognized all of the hurdles we have to clear before we ever line up for our first race, I think those objections would disappear.

I wouldn’t wish gender dysphoria on my worst enemy.

It’s nearly midnight. I’ve been up since 5am. Maybe I’ll add some more thoughts to this in the morning. Maybe not. I’m tired.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I want to follow up and say that I can see how my question could seem loaded. It wasn't meant that way. In my opinion my question gets to the heart of the issue. I can't relate to any of it personally so I am just speculating based on what I read in the 2 threads on this forum. I think there are very few people in this world that can relate to gender dysphoria and that is probably one of the biggest hurdles the transgender community faces. Hell, cis-men and women often have a hard enough time relating to each other and this is an even harder to understand dynamic.

I am sure this has been hard for you to do so I will thank you again. I came in here with an open mind and I think most everyone else did, too. From what I can see this was probably about the safest place that could have been provided for this discussion to happen. Thanks to @Norm and the other mods for that.

At the end of the day we are all people who like to have a great time riding bikes. I am sure some day our paths will cross on a trail somewhere and I would gladly ride a lap with you. Until then, happy trails!
 
seanrunnette said:
You may now return to your regularly scheduled life. See ya at the races :)
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No way man.... I am not done with her! :mad:
JK!!

@mstyer thank you for doing this as I am sure it took a lot of courage.
I still have not reached a conclusion but that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. However, I do believe I am far more educated now.
 
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One thing I have not seen mentioned is that Dr. McKinnon's victory could very well be the result of a not-so-strong field. Some has mentioned that the 35-39 category generally offers easier competition, as many athletes of that age would still be competing in a professional capacity (and not as masters). This seems to at least corroborate with the fact that she hasn't done well against other Canadian women at Canadian Track Nats.

The other thing is that Dr. McKinnon is 36 at the end of this year per USAC, which means that she's competing against people of the same age or older. The masters racer I know all relish the opportunity of hitting a new age group (as become the youngest racers in the age group), because there is a physiological advantage there. Take these two issues, and add to them fact that cycling is niche, that track cycling is a niche of a niche, it is possible that both a) her age and b) her quality of competition had a part in her win. Of course, when people are focused on the issue du jour, these other issues don't get considered, but these other factors shouldn't be dismissed.

That said, the two factors also don't rule out that she isn't enjoying a physiological advantage. Nothing is concrete and set in stone here...

Lastly, the Dr. Harper paper is mostly irrelevant here, as that paper (already with the deficiency of having too few participants) studied distance runners and their respective times in the 5k and 10k pre- and post- transition. The track events in which Dr. McKinnon participated are by definition events of neuromuscular and anaerobic efforts. As that paper did not seek to quantify the changes in those type of events (e.g. track events such as sprint of 400 m or less, hurdles, or field events such as hammer and javelin), that paper's finding has no relevance here.

There, of course, is a larger issue. We may never have a conclusive evidence pointing one way or the other. What then? We can punt on the moral/ethical considerations when scientific evidence renders those considerations unnecessary, but if scientific evidence cannot provide the clarity needed, the exchanges here become all the more relevant.
 
Norm said:
I have to focus on this, and point out that these things are not mutually exclusive. I think this is the next step in why this conversation is so difficult. Here is a realistic set of statements:

Cisgender Woman: As a woman, I understand what it feels like to be oppressed in this society.
Cisgender Woman: I also appreciate (but cannot fully understand) the struggles you go through as a transgender female/male.
Cisgender Woman: I also feel that a transgender female may be playing with a competitive advantage in athletic endeavors.

Again, these statements are not mutually exclusive. In speaking with several women off the record, I can tell you that those 3 opinions are held by a large number of women.

As a transgender female, you have these 2 options to move this narrative forward (IMO):

Transgender Woman: I understand all your points. And I want to educate you why you are incorrect on point #3.
or
Transgender Woman: I don't understand your perspective.

I am speaking wildly without experience here, so forgive me for this extension. But it can also be argued that you, growing up as a man, don't actually have the appreciation that a cisgender woman has for being essentially repressed her whole life, from birth. You have faced hurdles that the vast majority of us will never face, I admit. But as a transgender woman, I would think that one of the things that you need to try to embrace is the perspective of the cisgender woman.

I think you need to be able to say: Ok...I see your point. I may not agree with it. But I am going to try to understand it and work through why we disagree and try to come to a better understanding.

For myself, I have done exactly that. I have come into this discussion with an open mind. And I will admit, reading more about this and having these conversations has changed my perspective.

I don't have any additional questions. And again, I can appreciate the difficulty in this. Thanks for taking the time.
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Thanks, Norm. This is totally fair, and I'd like to clarify what I said last night in my half-asleep stupor.

I think you were pretty close with your first statement. I empathize with the women I ride and race with and why they might feel threatened. I am trying to educate, which is a big part of why I started this thread.

I grew up with a ton of male privilege that I was blissfully unaware of. The world saw me as a white cisgender heterosexual christian male. It doesn't get much better than that. I was told that I could do anything in this world I wanted to if I just put in the work. The leaders of business, politics, etc looked like me. People nodded and agreed when I spoke with a tone of authority. You get the idea. And I just figured that lots of guys related better to women and secretly wondered what it would be like to have been born that way. My image of trans or cross-dressing women came from movies like Tootsie and To Wong Foo.

Awakening to the reality of real gender dysphoria was like a bucket of ice water poured over my head. To not be able to look in the mirror without feeling nauseous, to face the feelings of despair and the suicidal thoughts when seeing headlines about trans people in the news and not wanting to submit myself to that, to knowing that my relatively new marriage suddenly had a shelf life inverse to how much I took care of myself......it was a fire hose of emotions.

I'm far enough along in my transition now, and fortunate enough in my genetics, that most people don't recognize me as trans these days. There was a solid year or so that I went through where I kept a mental list of where the safe bathrooms were though. A lot of my former male privilege has disappeared. I don't feel safe walking alone after dark. I am man-splained to regularly. At work, I am regularly overlooked in conversations where I'm the subject matter expert.

You're correct that I didn't grow up experiencing the systematic oppression that most women face. I'm doing what I can now to make up for that.....speaking up when I see something that isn't right and using what I've gained from my prior male privilege to help other women. I've spoken up when women's race categories are lumped together because the fields aren't as large. I called out the MAC cyclocross series for lumping cat. 3-5 together for results which led to a cat. 4 bottleneck. I called out NJCX this year for scheduling all cat. 1-5 and junior women to be on course at the same time, a situation that would've been dangerous for everyone. I coordinate with other women to support races that offer equal payouts even though I don't race in a category with cash prizes. I amplify the voices of other women who speak out against bullshit such as in the case of the misogynistic statements from the announcer at the Waterloo and Jingle Cross World Cup cross races.

Competitive advantage? No more than anyone else who rides their bike. The system is designed to upgrade racers to a category where they're competitive. If someone has a problem with me being a contender for a shiny plastic medal, a couple V-brake pads, or a pair of 26" tires, they need to take a long hard look in the mirror. I race because it's fun, not to make a living. None of us are professional cyclists. We pay race fees for the experience of participation. Prizes and the bragging rights of a cat. 3 podium should be a bonus, not an expectation.
 
I came across this a few minutes ago, which kind of captures a lot of the trans experience as it relates to sports and life.

1539958590819.png
 
echappy said:
One thing I have not seen mentioned is that Dr. McKinnon's victory could very well be the result of a not-so-strong field. Some has mentioned that the 35-39 category generally offers easier competition, as many athletes of that age would still be competing in a professional capacity (and not as masters). This seems to at least corroborate with the fact that she hasn't done well against other Canadian women at Canadian Track Nats.

The other thing is that Dr. McKinnon is 36 at the end of this year per USAC, which means that she's competing against people of the same age or older. The masters racer I know all relish the opportunity of hitting a new age group (as become the youngest racers in the age group), because there is a physiological advantage there. Take these two issues, and add to them fact that cycling is niche, that track cycling is a niche of a niche, it is possible that both a) her age and b) her quality of competition had a part in her win. Of course, when people are focused on the issue du jour, these other issues don't get considered, but these other factors shouldn't be dismissed.

That said, the two factors also don't rule out that she isn't enjoying a physiological advantage. Nothing is concrete and set in stone here...

Lastly, the Dr. Harper paper is mostly irrelevant here, as that paper (already with the deficiency of having too few participants) studied distance runners and their respective times in the 5k and 10k pre- and post- transition. The track events in which Dr. McKinnon participated are by definition events of neuromuscular and anaerobic efforts. As that paper did not seek to quantify the changes in those type of events (e.g. track events such as sprint of 400 m or less, hurdles, or field events such as hammer and javelin), that paper's finding has no relevance here.

There, of course, is a larger issue. We may never have a conclusive evidence pointing one way or the other. What then? We can punt on the moral/ethical considerations when scientific evidence renders those considerations unnecessary, but if scientific evidence cannot provide the clarity needed, the exchanges here become all the more relevant.
Click to expand...

Another layer....

1539959454944.png
 
mstyer said:
I came across this a few minutes ago, which kind of captures a lot of the trans experience as it relates to sports and life.

View attachment 79148
Click to expand...


I'm going to go out and say that saying people are arguing that people will pretend to be transgender to win is a strawman argument. The concern is not with faking trans to compete as a woman, the concern is that people that are legitimately male-->female trans then deciding to compete knowing they have a competitive advantage being a physical male for the majority of their life.

Obviously your transition had absolutely nothing to do with any urge to do better in sport, but it doesn't remove the concern over if you should or should not be allowed to do so. The argument is not that Rachel McKinnon transitioned so that she could win bike races, the argument is as a person that transitioned she has an unfair advantage and does not belong in that class.

I'll echo most of the other comments, thanks for starting this. While I disagree with you on transgender people competing in sports, the trans community needs people like yourself that put yourself out on the line so your voices are heard. A civil discussion on these topics are good. Thanks.
 
@mstyer - Thanks for taking the time and opening yourself up to discuss this.
I think wherever anyone is on the topic, we have all benefited from being informed by your perspective.
It is my hope that maybe you too got something from this in return.

Thank you
 
So is there any other requirements to compete in the woman's category other than the low testosterone levels?
And Morgan, do you frequent Starbucks in Matawan just of Rt34? Think I saw you there once.
 
Forgive me for feeling like I need to ask for forgiveness in advance if my wording or phrasing is not exactly to your liking, but that is where we at. Why can’t a woman win a women’s race and leave it at that? Leave the modifiers out of it. If the naturally born women need to work harder to win so be it. Do it. The transgender women should STFU about their particular circumstances and just pedal. I don’t care about your orientation so just do what you do and have fun. Non issue. Stop perpetuating what is simply the victim mentality ( both types of women are victims depending on where you sit.)

Woe is me I’m a victim wah wah waaaaah too much of this in society these days....

And I mean this in general in case someone missed it.
 
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