USAC and H2H?

Dave Taylor

Dave Taylor

Rex kwan Do
I wrote on the h2h fb page but didn’t hear any thoughts on this. The question I have is what does USAC bring to H2H? I am trying to have an open mind about it but I almost think it’s killing the series.
First, an $80 membership to race a max(as of now) 5 races comes out to $16/race on top of the race fee for cat 1/pro/endurance racers. Day pass for cat 2/3 is $10. Second, where is the incentive for a guy like myself who races just one or two of these races to prep for bigger races? Third, is this driving possible cat 1/pro/endurance racers away that might come for one or two rounds?
Is insurance the big deal? I believe Mass doesn’t use USAC and the NUE dropped a couple races this year because they went the USAC way.
Fill me in, justify someone paying $80 plus race fee and bike reg fee to race one XC race.
 
I’m no expert, but it may have a lot to do with insurance. That and points.
I think usac offers insurance that is cheaper or easier than the alternatives. And there is still a lot of racers who want to have points on the table. I started racing in the model where the goal was always upgrade points. Things have definitely changed though, I’m sure that model is not as common.
 
Jmann said:
I’m no expert, but it may have a lot to do with insurance. That and points.
I think usac offers insurance that is cheaper or easier than the alternatives. And there is still a lot of racers who want to have points on the table. I started racing in the model where the goal was always upgrade points. Things have definitely changed though, I’m sure that model is not as common.
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I can see that but with MTB racers disappearing left and right I would think promoters would do whatever to get more in, even if they are only for a race or two. Pretty much championships are nothing in H2H anymore. You kinda just need to make all the races and you become a champ.
 
How about a simple answer, the main sponsor wanted it to be. And if someone in this day and age is willing to put up thousands of dollars to help keep a series alive, you might want to oblige. That said, it's not that black and white. Mayhem had well over 400 racers, Lewis Morris, like 300, both USAC, can you explain that? Iron Furnace, non-USAC, 140. The NY series is non as well and they have been struggling worse than H2H. Bear Creek (A MASS race) had 205. Luckys, under a 100 and USAC? (No comment on your own teams choice there? :popcorn: ) See a trend?

A race tire these days can cost close to $100, a 4 pack of good beer close to $20. You travel to races and spent $100's on a single race mulitple times a yr between gas, hotel, food. And you are really going to complain about an $80 membership fee?

And as Magic stated, cross. Most top racers do both, so most don't care.
 
It must be March.

This is an ongoing issue that the series and Promoters have and will continue to ignore. There's no use even bringing it up. Support non-USAC events to prove it actually does limit numbers.
 
Dave Taylor said:
I can see that but with MTB racers disappearing left and right I would think promoters would do whatever to get more in, even if they are only for a race or two. Pretty much championships are nothing in H2H anymore. You kinda just need to make all the races and you become a champ.
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No doubt. Last year was a wash for me fitness and racing wise, so I had to really think if buying a usac license was worth it, and didn’t.
So if the mass series isn’t usac anymore, how do they regulate categories? In the sense of how do you prove you are cat 1 etc..
 
jimvreeland said:
It must be March.

This is an ongoing issue that the series and Promoters have and will continue to ignore. There's no use even bringing it up. Support non-USAC events to prove it actually does limit numbers.
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The series numbers where trending down before it went all Usac. Yet Mayhem broke series numbers records. LM had always been Usac and they always had the best numbers prior to Mayhem. Go figure. If you race road or cross you need a license. The bottom line is racing is hard, numbers were trending down all over (with exceptions). Easier courses get the racers out whether or not they are sanctioned. USAC may suck in many peoples eyes, but they are not the reason people aren’t racing XC.
 
Kirt said:
How about a simple answer, the main sponsor wanted it to be. And if someone in this day and age is willing to put up thousands of dollars to help keep a series alive, you might want to oblige. That said, it's not that black and white. Mayhem had well over 400 racers, Lewis Morris, like 300, both USAC, can you explain that? Iron Furnace, non-USAC, 140. The NY series is non as well and they have been struggling worse than H2H. Bear Creek (A MASS race) had 205. Luckys, under a 100 and USAC? (No comment on your own teams choice there? :popcorn: ) See a trend?

A race tire these days can cost close to $100, a 4 pack of good beer close to $20. You travel to races and spent $100's on a single race mulitple times a yr between gas, hotel, food. And you are really going to complain about an $80 membership fee?

And as Magic stated, cross. Most top racers do both, so most don't care.
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Mayhem numbers were considerably less than 2017. It’s not the number of racers, it’s the number that didn’t come the next year. So for perspective I can race one H2H race for approximately $140(need $80 usac license) or I can race the Mohican 100 with 600 people, epic everything including experience, aid stations out the wazoo etc. I guess if we are talking money spent the rerm money “well”spent should come into play. Just a couple years ago there were 8 or 9 h2h races and now only 5. The NYS series seems to be coming back.
 
For all the reasons stated, it’s a non issue. Between road, mtb, and cross, I’m over caring about it. I had it automatically renewed and didn’t even realize it happened till I got the email.
 
jShort said:
For all the reasons stated, it’s a non issue. Between road, mtb, and cross, I’m over caring about it. I had it automatically renewed and didn’t even realize it happened till I got the email.
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It makes sense for you. My argument is why the annual license requirement? I will gladly pay the one race fee via bike reg or day of but it's absolutely stupid to buy an annual license if you do one or two usac events. I do one or two usac events and one cx usac event max. Simply put, it's not worth it. Why are cat 2/3 racers not required to have it?
On a side not in response to @Kirt 's response. Iron Furnace is not a full blown xc/endurance race with 47 different classes. It's an endurance only event. Lucky's Revenge was a first year event with a 100 rider cap. Mayhem and Stewart are typically the "roadie" courses so plenty of non mothers show up. Bear Creek is the opposite. Gnarly, techy, doesn't attract non hardcore mothers. Doesn't really make sense.
 
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Dave Taylor said:
My argument is why the annual license requirement? I will gladly pay the one race fee via bike reg or day of but it's absolutely stupid to buy an annual license if you do one or two usac events. I do one or two usac events and one cx usac event max. Simply put, it's not worth it
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Then don't do USAC races..or race more USAC events to increase your value in having a license.
 
I'm with Pearl, no one is forcing you to go to any USAC race. Instead of complaining you could go to another race, stay home or whatever.
 
Kirt said:
The series numbers where trending down before it went all Usac. Yet Mayhem broke series numbers records. LM had always been Usac and they always had the best numbers prior to Mayhem. Go figure. If you race road or cross you need a license. The bottom line is racing is hard, numbers were trending down all over (with exceptions). Easier courses get the racers out whether or not they are sanctioned. USAC may suck in many peoples eyes, but they are not the reason people aren’t racing XC.
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Truth. Racing in general has taken a huge loss across the board. I feel it's all related though.
 
Pearl said:
If you don’t wanna support the races and the requirements, spend your money elsewhere, it is what it is bro
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jimvreeland said:
Truth. Racing in general has taken a huge loss across the board. I feel it's all related though.
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I guess...just let it be, let it whither away. I thought I would hear maybe some ideas for improvement or possible changes to attract some new faces. Not the case, just everyone on the defense. Why when I mention any sort of constructive criticism you guys just see criticism? Is the overall number of h2h racers greater in 2019 than it was in 2016? If it is then shame in me, if it isn’t thwn open your ears.
 
Part of the reason I started this thread is that I have three friends that don't do any h2h races because they would need to buy an annual license.
 
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